[QUOTE=RichX;778532]Yeah, good way to describe it - I felt that the Morel's had more depth to them. Indeed good value too :)[/QUOTE]

Yeh they do because their bottom end ("mid-bass") extends to play lower notes than the Focals. A fuller sound so to speak, as you experienced. Generally Focal is more a "mid-range" and up speaker and their bottom end response drops sharply. The less lower notes a speaker has to produce, the louder and clearer it can play but with obvious loss in the bottom end. This is where careful choice of sub and crossover setup/tuning comes into it but obviously only for the anal and "Sound Quality" enthusiasts (like myself and GTB Liberty).

I'm still trying to talk Soksta into hurrying up and sticking a pair of Morel in his car.

There is a "personal choice" aspect to the choice between sharp/concise mid range versus full/warmer sounding drivers/speakers as well. I, having been a sound engineer for years, am not the greatest fan of ultra tight and concise mid range. Why? Because I've been "trained" to hear mid range frequencies due to my audio work. As such, I prefer a warmer/fuller sounding speaker as I find it more pleasing to the ear.

As an example, in my home theater I have 2 way fronts with a 8" mid/bass driver and 2 way speakers with a 6" mid/bass driver as rears. The rears are newer and a tighter more concise mid range but I prefer the older warmer 8" and as such they have stayed as my main L/R speakers.

I understood almost none of the previous two posts but now know who to ask when I upgrade the speakers on my car. Some people on PWRX have mass knowledge.

Yeah, so glad I listened first as oppose to buying based on price tag (expensive, so it must be good?!, right?), or on other peoples reviews.

Just gonna see how my new setup goes with no dynamat. Install on Tues.

[QUOTE=TROLLEY;778639]I'm still trying to talk Soksta into hurrying up and sticking a pair of Morel in his car.[/QUOTE]

You and that demonstration at West Side have already swayed me to get some, unfortunately the money I had set aside has been eaten up by a three week holiday next year :(

Listening is important as everyone's ears are so, so different and what is pleasing to one person's ears just isn't to the next. However my advice has always been contradictory to my actions... I purchased my entire system (tweeters, mid-bass[B] and[/B] sub) from reputation, reviews and looking at their respective frequency response graphs. Absolutely stoked with my choices but doing so is fraught with danger/disappointment.

[QUOTE=TROLLEY;778651]Listening is important as everyone's ears are so, so different and what is pleasing to one person's ears just isn't to the next. However my advice has always been contradictory to my actions... I purchased my entire system (tweeters, mid-bass[B] and[/B] sub) from reputation, reviews and looking at their respective frequency response graphs. Absolutely stoked with my choices but doing so is fraught with danger/disappointment.[/QUOTE]

My ears are actually a real time analyzer :p

Whilst listening to speakers is the best thing to do; be aware that when at the store that the speaker boards are almost no reprEsentation of what they'll sound like in the vehicle.

Is musical taste an important factor in choosing equipment too? ie. Does certain music suit certain speakers?

Technically no. However, I couldn't imagine classical music sounding good on a ported subwoofer.

Notwithstanding, a system that plays classical music brilliantly will expose the failures of a modern dance track as an example.

[QUOTE=GTB Liberty;778659]be aware that when at the store that the speaker boards are almost no reprEsentation of what they'll sound like in the vehicle.[/QUOTE]

Yeah exactly - I figured if the Morels sound good coming out of soundboard into a big open room, on a cheaper amp, they should? sound even better inside a car given install/setup is good.

[QUOTE=thehowlfactor;778660]Is musical taste an important factor in choosing equipment too? ie. Does certain music suit certain speakers?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=GTB Liberty;778661]Technically no..[/QUOTE]

Based on my short and limited experience from the other day, techno would have sounded better on the Focals. In my personal opinion though, techno isn't the best music to fully explore the capabilities of a great audio system.

Any had or heard Rainbow speakers before? I wanted a set of Vanadium Cross components but they are very pricey. Awesome reviews and allegedly play metal fantastically bit can't get a demo anywhere

[QUOTE=RichX;778663]Yeah exactly - I figured if the Morels sound good coming out of soundboard into a bit open room, they should? sound even better inside a car given install/setup is good.





Based on my short and limited experience from the other day, techno would have sounded better on the Focals. In my personal opinion though, techno isn't the best music to fully explore the capabilities of a great audio system.[/QUOTE]

Techno is NO way to test a system bar frequency spread. ALL techno is compressed beyond recognition of what a dynamic range should be. It also, due to compression, puts an unrealistic strain on an amp.

Sound and it's reproduction is the ultimate mix of science and the black arts ;) I, as many sound engineers and enthusiasts, could go on for days about the vagaries of recording and reproducing sound. I love it and despise it all at the time as it gives me joy and wants me to pull my hair out. I always respect it :)

Now you can all see why you should never ask Andrew about speakers or music.

Something something prodigy big day out…

:)

(Note the smiley face grumpy old man before launch)


using the Perth-WRX mobile app

[QUOTE=phizzle;778666]Any had or heard Rainbow speakers before? I wanted a set of Vanadium Cross components but they are very pricey. Awesome reviews and allegedly play metal fantastically bit can't get a demo anywhere[/QUOTE]

From all reports over east and Car Audio Australia members the Rainbow Vanadium series were fantastic speakers. I have never known anyone to sell Rainbow speakers here in WA and whoever purchased from here did so on reputation. I'm fairly sure no-one is importing them into Australia and haven't done so for a few years.

[QUOTE=scary;778672]Now you can all see why you should never ask Andrew about speakers or music.

Something something prodigy big day out…

:)

(Note the smiley face grumpy old man before launch)[/QUOTE]

Seen :D

Simple version, listen to multiple speakers, choose favourite. Look at average power rating of the speaker.

Amps - Multiply speaker average rating by two. Look at amps with that average output, try various amps until best sound is achieved.

Go home - profit.

Headroom, read bigger horsepower is what saves speakers at volume. You WILL hear a speaker over extend. It's a bit like a pinging engine sort of obvious. Unlikely you'll notice an amp clipping. When an amp can't put out the necessary energy to push a speaker it holds the speaker in a fixed position at the the the nodes of the sound wave. No movement means heat build up - long enough time means melted voice coil. Next is Dead speaker.

*The above theory is so simplified. I for one run a time aligned and EQ'd car system with a 30w rated Sub with a 300W plus amp driving. I have also used my front HT speakers in the early days as studio monitors with 70W speakers being driven by Crown 600W monoblock amps. It's voodoo I tell you*

[QUOTE=TROLLEY;778674]From all reports over east and Car Audio Australia members the Rainbow Vanadium series were fantastic speakers. I have never known anyone to sell Rainbow speakers here in WA and whoever purchased from here did so on reputation. I'm fairly sure no-one is importing them into Australia and haven't done so for a few years.[/QUOTE]
I was unable to find anyone in Australia who sells them but did find a distributor. Obviously they don't sell a help of a lot so no stores stock them as they don't move the volume of say Alpine, et al. The model I was looking at is Vanadium Phase Plug Cross too, find a set on eBay for $800 delivered but anything car audio related on eBay is buy at own risk as there is so much fake gear on there...

Anyway here's the system Rob at Volatile put together for me but as yet I haven't moved forward on it.

Clarion VX603au double din source unit
Audison bit TEN D audio processor + DRC remote
Audison AD/AC Link board plus cables (full digital signal source to amp :-D)
audison Digital Audison AV5.1K amp 2x75wrms for tweeters, 2x140wrms for mid bass and 1x600wrms@4ohm or 1000wrms@2ohm for sub
Audison Voce AV6.5 front stage running active
Audison AV12 subwoofer in slot port enclosure
Dynamat the shizzen out of it

Similar system option was with Hertz Mille speakers, Hertz digital amps and twin 12" Hertz subs.

Got my install going in on Tuesday (can't wait), been reading a bit about dynamat. Is this mainly for road noise etc? Much point in a noisey subaru with exhaust and high road noise from semi slicks etc.

Maybe just do the boot? Is there even any point?

[QUOTE=RichX;779204]Got my install going in on Tuesday (can't wait), been reading a bit about dynamat. Is this mainly for road noise etc? Much point in a noisey subaru with exhaust and high road noise from semi slicks etc.

Maybe just do the boot? Is there even any point?[/QUOTE]

One of the best things I have bought... Did the whole boot and the rattles have stopped (in the boot anyway) and I believe the spl has also increased. The bass is also a lot cleaner and sounds better.

Road noise is also reduced. So win win. You can get a bulk pack on eBay that's 60sq feet I think for the price of a dynamat door kit.

Got some left over if you want it? Would do a boot lid?
using the Perth-WRX mobile app

The stronger the enclosure with weight and dampening the less resonance and the more accurate the driver response.

Big job to do the boot? How many hrs.

[QUOTE=RichX;779211]Big job to do the boot? How many hrs.[/QUOTE]

Not too bad. Whole boot including wheel well and sides maybe a couple of hours.

using the Perth-WRX mobile app

Righteo! Very happy with my new system. Sound quality is awesome, install is flawless. Amp tucked away nicely under passenger seat. Ken is a top bloke and Dave did the install and it's all totally factory looking.

Pulled out my old Nokia Bluetooth system, now that I have full integration with my new unit which is great, and even replaced my battery in my key, after not having central locking for a few years (!), slack on my behalf.

Just trying to tune the system now so it sounds the best (Sub levels, EQ, don't really wanna fuck with time correction and all the other scary settings just yet)

Im sure its mentioned somewhere within 7 pages worth of posts, but where did you take your car to for the install? I like the idea of a factory looking install...

Westside Sound & Image in Morley. Factory door trims still all intact, no cutting etc. Amp is pretty much invisible under the seat (PDX V9 is nice and small), wiring is super tidy. Ken will sort you out and knows the P-WRX crew.

Been living with the new system for a week or so now, so:

Bad:

- Had to valcro down the sub in the boot way more to keep it in place. One strip was never going to be enough. The stiff ride with coilovers and hard cornering, it didn't stand a chance. All good now.

Possibly worthwhile doing an integrated subwoofer into the boot, but then it cannot be removed when required. So personal choice here I guess.

Good:

Having great sounding audio, it's a luxury, that most of us bypass for performance mods, but so worthwhile if you're into your music. I only have a few more performance mods I want to do with the car, which will come later.

I have pretty much got it sounding exactly how I want now.

A few pics:,

[IMG]http://members.ii.net/~richard.smith/Scoob/PDX.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://members.ii.net/~richard.smith/Scoob/PDXV9.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://members.ii.net/~richard.smith/Scoob/CDEWRX.jpg[/IMG]

Nice, so keen to do my sound system but smoothing out the hiccups comes first.

With your sub in the boot I had the same issue, eventually the Velcro gives way so what I did was remove the boot carpet and drill holes in the board that covers the spare wheel and 2 matching holes in the sub box match with 2 cables ties and it never went anywhere.

When doing stereo install's I always use something like this, ($1 each from bunnings) to mount the sub in the boot..

[url=http://store.digi.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2365]Digi Online Store: Antenna Mounting Bracket - L-shaped wall mount. 12 mm hole. Compatibility: 76000843, 76000841[/url]

Drill into side of box and drill into boot floor, and keeps your sub easily removable if you keep a screwdriver in your glove box.. I went around barbs with 2x12" subs screwed down by 2 of these brackets and it worked a treat :)

Been mucking around a bit more - Alpine make a "TuneIt" App for iPhone/Android, which connects to the headunit via BT and then allows you to, yes, tune it, through a GUI as opposed to the funky menu's.

Tuned up the Parametric EQ for 20 mins, and sounds even better.
Not got onto the time correction yet, but can also be done through the app.
Cheating a bit through the app, i know - but I think this is the way forward.

Everyone's "tunes" are fully shareable so you can upload them all to the cloud.

[YT]LNLBuebX3TM[/YT]

[QUOTE=RichX;782878]Not got onto the time correction yet, but can also be done through the app.[/QUOTE]
Rich, glad you've had a good solid practice at using the app and tuning for your ears, do the time correction first, then do your EQ again. Once it is time corrected you'll find all the peaks and troughs that were hiding behind the bass and treble you've just adjusted 😁

Also, JB Hi Fi are having 30% off car audio at the moment until 31st Dec so bargains are to be had. I picked up a Pioneer AVH-X3500DAB head unit for $327.60. RRP on these bad boys are $699 so get on it if you've been putting it off.

[url]http://www.jbhifi.com.au/car-sound-gps-navigation/av-navigation/pioneer/6-1-inch-2din-cd-dvd-tuner-dab-sku-365100/[/url]

[url]http://www.pioneer.com.au/au/products/25/109/281/AVH-X3500DAB/page.html[/url]

Features are impressive, probably worst thing is 2 volt preouts, which isn't exactly bad in the first place, just not ideal.

Will give it a go - I can't help but feel though, with a time corrected setup, this is somewhat a selfish configuration, and thus front seat passenger may not get best audio. A trade off I suppose.

PS: Nice headunit. I might go back to Double DIN one day. Can they tether off smartphones and get Internet yet?

Bloody doof doof!!!!
How's the 6speed going?
When you going to come track it?

Ohhh & hope the mrs is recovering well..

[QUOTE=RichX;782887]Will give it a go - I can't help but feel though, with a time corrected setup, this is somewhat a selfish configuration, and thus front seat passenger may not get best audio. A trade off I suppose.

PS: Nice headunit. I might go back to Double DIN one day. Can they tether off smartphones and get Internet yet?[/QUOTE]
I did write a whole other paragraph on making sure you demo passengers in the drivers seat because it'll sound like ass for everyone else but knew you'd be smart enough for that. Glad I wasn't wrong haha.

Yes, they can mirror iPhones with the correct cables. Basically you use the screen on the head unit as you would your iPhone. Awesome for GPS if you've got the data.
Android not so much. Which sucks, and I'm sure someone is working on it but for the mean time my HTC One will be doing all the Bluetooth streaming if I'm not using the iPod.

Saving for 6 speed. :) 5 speed is going very well though currently, nice and tight still with the short shifter. Keen for no limits, specially with the amount of popo out right now, and driving sooo incredibly carefully. Been speed-checked 4 times in the last 3 days!

She is recovering well, will live to fight another day. Thankful of course she is not dead. Been driving to and from RPH lots.

Thanks Ash

[QUOTE=RichX;782887]Will give it a go - I can't help but feel though, with a time corrected setup, this is somewhat a selfish configuration, and thus front seat passenger may not get best audio. A trade off I suppose?[/QUOTE]

Seriously, forget your passenger. Time aligned or not, all they will be hearing is the left side of the system.

When doing your time alignment, use tracks with clear vocals and try to get the vocals centered over the middle of the dash and as high as possible. When adjusting your crossovers, try to get the mid-bass "kick" to come from as far forward in the car as possible (very tricky and dependent on a lot of things - may not be possible for you).

If you like, you're welcome to bring your car over and I'll give you a hand tuning. I assume the app lets you save more than one tune?

Yeah more than one tune - where are you at? Might have some time up my sleeve.

I'm in Belmont. On school holidays at the moment so pretty much available whenever. Just flick us a pm =)

Could be a good idea - Doing some reading about time correction, can't seem to find anything on the net around good time correction settings for GDA/B Subaru's using the stock speaker placement, eg:

Front Left: 1.9 ms
Front Right: 0.45 ms
Rear Left: 0.95 ms
Rear Right: 0

But i might work to that kind of baseline. Also, I heard it's wise/best to set the Sub to Zero? In addition, work on the rear's first, and once happy with those do the fronts and then fade accordingly? And then to work on the parametric EQ ..

Technical shit, almost have to get the calculator out. Speed of sound/temperature * how many beers I have drunk.

The manual for my headunit goes into some detail around TC:

[url]http://www.alpine.com.au/files/2013OwnersManuals/CDE-148EBT_OM.pdf[/url]

For this I will assume all your speakers are wired correctly and in phase etc etc

Set everything to zero, including the gains on the amp/s.

Set your volume to what you would normally listen to your music at. This sets your max volume for good recordings. Next put on a song you know inside-out. Heavy in bass for preferences so you can set the gain on your sub channel to maximum without any clipping. Clipped signal is what kills speakers because it holds them at max excursion. No movement=no air flow=hot voice coils=smokey goodness. Remember to set the low pass so your sub isn't playing any frequencies it shouldn't, I personally go for a low pass of 80Hz with a 12db filter slope. Set the main speakers with a @ similar 12db high pass filter around 90Hz. Depending on your speakers they might like playing down a bit further so it's up to you to decide where to cross them, higher might sound better to you.

Once your sub is sounding good to you, start slowly increasing the gains on your speaker amp using the same philosophy. You don't want any clipped signal.

With every amp now sending power at its optimal level, time correct it for your driving position. If needed get a mate to measure distances from the mid point between tweeter and midbass speakers of front left and front right and from middle of any rear fill left and right and also the sub to your head in your driving position. Write all these down in mm. The futherest speaker to you will be the sub so that will be your baseline for all other measurements eg. time correction=0ms. Subtract that distance from all other measurements and apply t=d(in metres)/v where v=340.3 metres per second. So your measurements divided by 340300 gives the fraction of a second time correction per channel needed so notes from each speaker reach your ears at the same time.

Next adjust the EQ very slowly and one frequency at a time starting low and working up to 20,000Hz. Only go plus or minus one at a time. You'll find with the amps set spot on and everything time aligned you won't need heaps of EQ unless your speakers favour certain frequencies too much.

Bear in mind to get it all just how you like might take weeks because road noise destroys the bass and what sounds good stationary will not be that great on the freeway.

Good luck 😁

Shit mate that is epic, done it a few times I assume.
Not played with the gains or anything on the amp, but i'm led to believe it's half decent which is good.