Hah, I need to learn2read. I read it as a AVO top mount... whoops.

VIPEC would be a waste of time on that 03 wrx wouldnt you say? Surely you could have open source tuned it.

Maybe they have other plans for the car in the future and would rather get it right the first time and just need a retune when adding new parts and therefor save $$ ?

I would have thought Verso or the like would have been easier too though?

Open source tune is good but Vipec is a step above open source.
A full 32bit Vi-pec ecu is always better than the stock 16bit GD unit.

We offer open source tunes at Evolution R. However, Vipec comes with awesome datalogging for drag and circuit use which open source doesnt.

A good example will be Simon's Vipec GD vs Meatbag's Verso-tuned Sti. Same power, but Roughstilin's time on the drag strip is less by more than half a second as the Vi-pec delivers smooth torque and power through the ability to datalog extensively.

So get a motec and run 10's then?

Seriously that logic is flawed.

[QUOTE=mao;634320]
We offer open source tunes at Evolution R. However, Vipec comes with awesome datalogging for drag and circuit use which open source doesnt.

[/QUOTE]

also incorrect, open source tuned cars can be easily datalogged using OBII port and a laptop

[QUOTE=EXPLICIT;634492]So get a motec and run 10's then?

Seriously that logic is flawed.[/QUOTE]
Agreed.

Mao do you actually believe what you write? 'Cos sometimes i dont.

[QUOTE=mao;634320]
A good example will be Simon's Vipec GD vs Meatbag's Verso-tuned Sti. Same power, but Roughstilin's time on the drag strip is less by more than half a second as the Vi-pec delivers smooth torque and power through the ability to datalog extensively.[/QUOTE]

There's a lot more going on here than just ECU choice.

Most definitely not dude.

Giving an example between the 16bit stock factory Ecu vs 32bit Vi-pec ecu.

[QUOTE=bryno;634560]There's a lot more going on here than just ECU choice.[/QUOTE]

Logic of standard 16bit ecu vs Vipec 32bit?

[QUOTE=EXPLICIT;634492]So get a motec and run 10's then?

Seriously that logic is flawed.[/QUOTE]

I am sure the OST can datalog on the track and drag strip as well... show me pls LOL.

[QUOTE=American Dave;634495]also incorrect, open source tuned cars can be easily datalogged using OBII port and a laptop[/QUOTE]


And which part now?
[QUOTE=RUSSGT;634529]Agreed.

Mao do you actually believe what you write? 'Cos sometimes i dont.[/QUOTE]

Given meatbag's car is a MY06 which has a 32 bit ecu, how does this help with the comparison?

I am just going to pop in here for the LOL's. :happy1:

Hi Kato,

Please read the thread again, maybe I didnt word it too well.n Did not refer to his ecu as 16bit.

1) Was refering to the datalogging capabilities dude between the 2 cars.
2) 16bit vs 32bit was the answer to why we used the Vipec on the 03WRX.


[QUOTE=Kato;634587]Given meatbag's car is a MY06 which has a 32 bit ecu, how does this help with the comparison?[/QUOTE]

Ok came across as a comparison of Simon's Vipec to meatbags open source tune with the vipec being superior as it is 32 bit. But all the DBW cars are 32 bit ecu.

[QUOTE=mao;634320][B]Open source tune is good but Vipec is a step above open source. [/B]
A full 32bit Vi-pec ecu is always better than the stock 16bit GD unit.

We offer open source tunes at Evolution R. However, Vipec comes with awesome datalogging for drag and circuit use which open source doesnt.

[B]A good example will be Simon's Vipec GD vs Meatbag's Verso-tuned Sti. Same power, but Roughstilin's time on the drag strip is less by more than half a second as the Vi-pec delivers smooth torque and power through the ability to datalog extensively.[/B][/QUOTE]
This is what i dont understand Mao. How is the Vipec's datlogging going to make a car equipped with it ".5s" quicker?

Mao, i have been ringing for 5 days now trying to buy one of these, i have called your mobile 4 times and the office well over 10!

If you want to sell one .......

Sorry dude, working on the floor trying to get work out before Christmas.

I can be reached on my mobile on 04213 87888.

P/S: Got your call. Thanks.

[QUOTE=fatboy;634618]Mao, i have been ringing for 5 days now trying to buy one of these, i have called your mobile 4 times and the office well over 10!

If you want to sell one .......[/QUOTE]

Russ, can go into it all day. Just a good example of the features of the datalogging on the Vipec allows MBT, which then allow us to tune the ignition curve optimumly

For example we can log it on the track and adjust this to suit the individual's driving style.

[QUOTE=RUSSGT;634613]This is what i dont understand Mao. How is the Vipec's datlogging going to make a car equipped with it ".5s" quicker?[/QUOTE]

This makes me laugh. Mao how can you claim that the .5 down the strip is because of the Vipec! 2 different drivers with 2 different styles in 2 different cars...................pretty ridiculous claim mate, there is no way possible to be able to prove the Vipec is better because of times at the drags unless you can somehow mirror the car and the driver etc.....

[QUOTE=mao;634625]Russ, can go into it all day. Just a good example of the features of the datalogging on the Vipec allows MBT, which then allow us to tune the ignition curve optimumly

For example we can log it on the track and adjust this to suit the individual's driving style.[/QUOTE]
So data logging only works by getting a retune based on the logs. So the vipec isnt what makes the car faster but the ability to tune a little better due to logs.

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;634627]This makes me laugh. Mao how can you claim that the .5 down the strip is because of the Vipec! 2 different drivers with 2 different styles in 2 different cars...................pretty ridiculous claim mate, there is no way possible to be able to prove the Vipec is better because of times at the drags unless you can somehow mirror the car and the driver etc.....[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Another point is that Simons car MPH says it has less power than what your dyno states.

Mao you need to learn that all the people on here are experts and know everything, don't bother arguing with them.

You will never win!!!! :D

Mao i appologise, i am not trying to argue. Just learn.

[QUOTE=STI325V6;634637]Mao you need to learn that all the people on here are experts and know everything, don't bother arguing with them.

You will never win!!!! :D[/QUOTE]
You're wrong there. People will jump on unfounded and impossible to prove comments just to flog your product. Any other comment wouldn't have received any attention.

And let's be honest. Especially when you compare these unjustifiable comments against a house favourite in Verso.

[IMG]http://blog.cpas.anu.edu.au/diffusion/files/2010/08/x-files-believe1.jpeg[/IMG]

Tuning and dyno numbers aside, the ViPec is a good unit. Better than a reflash at a standard WRX level? Questionable & everyone has their own opinion. But you do get Antifag, which is full of win. I am sure you could spend the money that you would have spent on a ECU on worse things.

I think if you plan to do major work to your car, the unit leaves re-flashing / open source way behind. I am far from being an expert but I know that with my current build, the standard ECU would not work.

I have been told you can run dual fuel / ignition maps by switch control, trigger electrics such as inter cooler spray at a set boost pressure, going off your MAP sensor. I am sure there are many other uses for these digital / analogue inputs and outputs, if you have time to think about what you can do with them.

People spend a grand + on the 2 most well known Open Source tunes. 1 of those tuning methods is not well liked on here, it begins with an E. Has anyone ever heard anything bad about the ViPec ECU? I say its pretty good value for money for a intermediate mod level, daily driven car.

Each to their own though & as said before, people have a right to their own opinion.

I agree that Mao's post is probably unfounded, but why do these threads have to turn to shit all the time.

Seems to be common these days, good threads head South :)

Why didn't the vendor with the fraudulent GB cop anywhere near as much shit as this..............

1) There are vast differences between a open source tune other than just datalogging. You dont even get a map trace on most of the popular softwares.

2) You can tell how much hp a car makes with mph? You are a legend.

[QUOTE=RUSSGT;634633]So data logging only works by getting a retune
based on the logs. So the vipec isnt what makes the car faster but the ability to tune a little better due to logs.


Agreed. Another point is that Simons car MPH says it has less power than what your dyno states.[/QUOTE]

Based my opinion on the WOT power and torque runs of both cars done on our dyno.

Yes 2 different ecus, 2 complete different drivers, 2 different GDs, Simon's 2.0 STi and the other a 2.5 STi.

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;634646]You're wrong there. People will jump on unfounded and impossible to prove comments just to flog your product. Any other comment wouldn't have received any attention.

And let's be honest. Especially when you compare these unjustifiable comments against a house favourite in Verso.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;634627]This makes me laugh. Mao how can you claim that the .5 down the strip is because of the Vipec! 2 different drivers with 2 different styles in 2 different cars...................pretty ridiculous claim mate, there is no way possible to be able to prove the Vipec is better because of times at the drags unless you can somehow mirror the car and the driver etc.....[/QUOTE]

All good Russ, have a good weekend.
[QUOTE=RUSSGT;634640]Mao i appologise, i am not trying to argue. Just learn.[/QUOTE]

We have just re-tuned Simon's car ready for his round of 0-400m today. Couple of months back, the car had a misfire above 5000rpm where we reset trigger levels on the Vi-pec to dismiss the tune. This resulted in a 335hp run.

However, at the last Kwinana drags, he complained of a misfire up top again which only gave him a best time of 12.7s.

Yesterday, we put his car on the Dynapack for a retune. This time round, the car hit 330hp max. After about 3 runs, the car started misfiring again, dropping power to 308hp. We tried to reset voltages and dwells, as well as trigger levels, but there was no improvement.

We then proceeded to change the Ik22 plugs and new coil-packs. Problems solved!! You can see these products at our Spark plugs thread ( [url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/evolution-r/42272-ngk-iriway-7-iriway-8-irimax-7-denso-ik20-22-24-iridium-performance-spark-plugs.html[/url] ) and O2/Coilpack thread ( [url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/evolution-r/43601-genuine-subaru-o2-sensors-afr-knock-sensor-coil-packs-2.html[/url]. )

Below are pics of 2 of the coil-packs taken off Simon's engine:
[IMG]http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/3233/dsc02068v.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3020/dsc02067lj.jpg[/IMG]

New Coil pack we put in:
[IMG]http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/3453/dsc02069rz.jpg[/IMG]

Below is how Roughstilin's car performs when it misfires:
[IMG]http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9294/dsc02071ml.jpg[/IMG]

Below is the result of today's tune and our tune is health-proven. Stock STi 2.0 engine is still mint, producing awesome power boosting at a max of 1.85 bar of boost after all the events he has been to.
[IMG]http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6047/dsc02066u.jpg[/IMG]

Awhile ago, we had the chance to work on a WRX with an STi conversion including DCCD running a twin scroll VF36:
[url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/evolution-r/42278-vipec-pnp-94-95-97-98-99-00-01-07-wrex-2.html[/url]

The car has since changed hands and the new owner had installed a HKS GT2835 and below are the 2 tunes we did.

On the first tune, it hit a max of 290.5hp before the HKS turbo bearings were damaged. The HKS turbine was bought as a used unit which was claimed to have been rebuilt only recently with very little kms done on it. The other thing queried was what engine oil was used and it was apparently Mobil 1 which made me quite skeptical.

First tune before turbo blew which hit 290.5hp compare with the 322hp result on the
2nd tune with overhauled HKS Turbo:
[IMG]http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6276/dsc02140j.jpg[/IMG]

So regardless whether it was a worn turbine or bad engine oil, this P.WRX member quickly repaired the turbo via Turbotech and brought the vehicle in for the second tune --- this time using Cusco Engine oil.

Below is the final tune at 322hp in comparison to 269hp when it was using the VF36. (Torque could have been smoother, but unfortunately with a 35degC workshop temp, we were not going to push more timing.)
[IMG]http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/580/dsc02139d.jpg[/IMG]

Mao, any chance you could overlay Roughstylin's power run vs the GT 2835?

Yes will do it. Just note that the other car had type C cams and heads.

Yeah, curious how the area under the curve stacks up for both car setups. Looks to be quite different despite the similar(ish) hp figures.

Hi Kato,

You are correct with the assessment.

Simon's car has higher hp and torque as he is running better headers and uppipe and front pipe, althought the other car had Spec C cams and heads. Also, we have spent a lot of time on Simon's tune which was great as he was able to play with the car on the skid pan and the drags, and afterwards came back to fine-tune it a couple of times to achieve what he really required.

Also Simon's HKS turbo was full HKS spec which spooled up quicker and stronger but because the other car had a recon done locally, the tubro bearing catridge replaced is not HKS but Garrett. HKS develops its own stuff by further enhancing the Garrett GT2835in which case, RoghStilin's car performed better.

However, do not put down the Spec C as it was tuned on a 35degC day, so there would have been better torque figures on a cooler day.

Below is the closest graph I could find for RoughStilin's car vs the Spec C. As you can see, Simon's turbo spooled a lot stronger. I have used this graph as a close comparison with timing not heavily advanced yet on Simon's STi.
[IMG]http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/5774/dsc02141ft.jpg[/IMG]

Below is Simon's STi with heavy timing advance vs the Spec C (which was tuned on a 35degC day and is on a very safe tune):
[IMG]http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/8830/dsc02143y.jpg[/IMG]

For any that dont know - My car will be in next week or the week after for Vipec and tuning, it will be interesting to see it on a Stock 2.0 Non-STi as opposed to these STi's and 2.5's with modifications.

I have had a history of terrible fuel economy since I got my car last year, have removed the BoV, done ECU Relearns, serviced/replaced alot of various pumps and filters through regular maintenance, changed the AFM, nothing has helped. I decided to go to the extreme and fuck off the standard system all together.

My aim will be for fixing that fuel economy and to hopefully bring my torque up a bit, I feel my car is very sluggish, takes ages for boost to come on and its not particularly zippy either.

Will be interesting to see the outcomes :)

Thanks Mao for the graphs.

Good for anyone wondering why no one cares about top end power values, but it is the area under the torque curve is what makes you go fast.

[QUOTE=Kato;643030]Thanks Mao for the graphs.

Good for anyone wondering why no one cares about top end power values, but it is the area under the torque curve is what makes you go fast.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but torque doesn't win you the horsepower hero dyno challenge! :p

Real world example, going from a 127kW diesel Hilux to a 120kW Cruze - only a pooftenth of power difference and the Cruze is lighter, but you have to wring the guts out of the cruze to get anywhere while it was effortless in the hilux. I miss having a diesel for that alone, but equally I cant wait for the new Rex!

[QUOTE=SyncSubaru;642973]For any that dont know - My car will be in next week or the week after for Vipec and tuning, it will be interesting to see it on a Stock 2.0 Non-STi as opposed to these STi's and 2.5's with modifications.

I have had a history of terrible fuel economy since I got my car last year, have removed the BoV, done ECU Relearns, serviced/replaced alot of various pumps and filters through regular maintenance, changed the AFM, nothing has helped. I decided to go to the extreme and fuck off the standard system all together.

My aim will be for fixing that fuel economy and to hopefully bring my torque up a bit, I feel my car is very sluggish, takes ages for boost to come on and its not particularly zippy either.

Will be interesting to see the outcomes :)[/QUOTE]

Looking forward to see this as I was always interested in what kind of improvements can be seen over stock ECU on a GC8 WRX.

Adi

The Vi-pec install on the Cam's GC8 made about 20hp more at the hubs. Not a lot of increase at WOT with severe problems holding it even at 1 bar, due to the aging boost solenoid and the tiny stock turbine (low turbine efficiency). But overall driveability below the WOT and fuel efficiency will no doubt have a 100% improvement on Cam's rex.

Will post up the Dynocharts and analysis of the tune shortly. (stuck at the pizza shop without the camera's usb link cable.... Dohh!)

Drove 100kms tonight, giving some decent stick, and still above 3/4 full. Happy man!