Issues with Brant , IACV, MAF, Crank or O2 sensor ????
 

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Guys,[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have been having 2 different intermittent problems with my 03 / 04 STI.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Mods[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]TBE, Walbro & Tune (ASG)[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]HKS dry pod filter[/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Lowered[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have done plenty of searching but I can’t seem to find anything that is specific to my exact problems. I have had enough, and wanted to check here to see if anyone can shed any light at all on both of the issues I have, before I go spending any money on parts / labour. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Both these problems are intermittent and I cannot say that they happen after anything specific. I.E Car being hot / cold, weather condition or the current Moon phase. They do not happen at the same time or on the same day, they are totally separate of each other.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Issue #1[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I Unlock the car with key fob, key in ignition (key light on dash goes away, other dash lights light up), punch in the Brant code, CEL lights up, can hear relay / relays clicking on Brant module inside dash, fuel pump primes (5 seconds), turn the key to start, just turns over, after about 4 or 5 seconds, I try again still no start. Lock the car whilst inside, open it again, try again, and away she goes. But when this happens the CEL light stays on? I can sometimes smell fuel dependant on how many tries I give her, before she starts.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have tried to get the code buy using my ECU data scan, but it says there are no codes? The CEL goes away by itself after 5 starts. I have taken it to Subaru Ozzy Park when the CEL light is still on to get the codes read, but they said there were no codes up either, current or stored.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]This issue would probably happen 1 in 15 times I try to start the car. Everyother time its fine.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Issue #2[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana] [/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Driving along normally within speed limits, slow down, begin to come to idle, get to idle (800 rpm), revs drop by about 300 rpm to around 500, car feels like it is going to stall, kind of. CEL comes on, couple of jabs on the loud pedal and it comes back to life, albeit with some hesitation initially. Again clears after 5 starts, and once again no codes.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]This issues probably happens one a month.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]So what I have done to try to fix the issues with a fair amount of reading, on here, rexnet,nasioc, iwsti, etc. I am not sure if both these items are related, seems weird that it throws a CEL with no code???[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]1. Clean IACV - It was pretty dirty - No change both issues still there.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]2. Clean MAF numerous times - No change. I have also Disconnected the MAF, try to start, starts ok but CEL comes up, manage to get MAF code for CEL using ECU data scan (whichever one it is, I can’t remember now).[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]3. Do the DIY Brant solder of the module under the dash. Could not really see anything wrong with the solder joints that were there, but touched over the points in the DIY anyway - No change.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]What Subaru told me.[/FONT][/COLOR][/U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Subaru told me to change out, remove or replace the Brant as this was causing issue #1. However the no starting issue so I have found by research normally is related to the fuel pump not priming? I hear the fuel pump prime and can on occasion smell fuel, quite strongly once it has failed to start... Not sure what my insurance company would think of my car Brantless?[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Subaru then told me the MAF was the culprit for issue #2. [COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If it was MAF related would it not cough and splutter more as I am going through the rev range, not just at idle?[/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/COLOR]
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[U][COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]What I have found.[/FONT][/COLOR][/U]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If the car does not start after the first few turns over, I lock and unlock the car, try again and 9/10 it starts that time. Does my car have a separate immobiliser to the Brant system? Wonder if it could be this, if it does have a spate system that runs off the key fob? [/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Apart from that I am lost as what to change first, so I was wondering if anyone else has had these same problems? I am not sure if they are related or not? Seems weird that both throw a CEL with no code?[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Any information would be great as I don’t want to go spending money on parts if I don’t need them [/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Apologies in advance for the massive post, but I wanted to get as much info down as possible.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Cheers guys[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Simon[/FONT][/COLOR]

You are throwing a code and it is being stored. Some codes are just a little bit harder to read!

I'd take it back to ASG and get them to read it and go from there. Do you know if there have been any changes to your injectors?

Rip out the brant, that's all that needs to be said here.

lol yeah the brant can be a bitch sometimes, for awhile there mine was playing up, but now its fine... Not sure if its true, but someone told me if ya battery volts drop the brant will play up

[QUOTE=Kato;562188]You are throwing a code and it is being stored. Some codes are just a little bit harder to read!

I'd take it back to ASG and get them to read it and go from there. Do you know if there have been any changes to your injectors?[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Kato,[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I cannot say 100% that the injectors are stock, but at a guess I say they would be due to the mod’s the car had when I bought it, which was just a catback and air filter. Unless the car has been modded and someone has put it back close to standard?[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I had been having the issues prior to going to ASG and I did ask the guy who was tuning my car, and Sean if there were any codes in there and they said no. Plus if it had the CEL actually up on the dash and numerous times it had come up prior to me going to Subaru, surely they would have found it?[/FONT][/COLOR]
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I only say it as I've had codes come up that the tech at Mitsubishi couldn't read. Some of the better programs out there can read a few more things.

The fact that it is coming up on the dash and staying on for the 5 starts means there is an issue with a code. If you can get that code, bam, problem solved.

[QUOTE=Kato;562208]I only say it as I've had codes come up that the tech at Mitsubishi couldn't read. Some of the better programs out there can read a few more things.

The fact that it is coming up on the dash and staying on for the 5 starts means there is an issue with a code. If you can get that code, bam, problem solved.[/QUOTE]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Awesome thanks for that.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Just out of interest, the main codes the car throws with the CEL start with the P such as P0345 - Camshaft Position Sensor A Circuit Bank 2. If the codes are hard to read, I am assuming that they don’t come up like the normal codes and I wondered if you had any other information (even form the Mitsubishi) what they might be looking for?[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I really want to get this sorted asap.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]One thing I forgot to mention before also, sometimes when it happens it also backfires.... Not sure if this helps the diagnosis at all....[/FONT][/COLOR]

If you want I can try check the codes with our workshops tool. I'd be getting rid of Brant anyway. Soon as you can try get some codes should start making more sense.

P codes are the normal codes.

If you know someone with a tatrix cable and evoscan/romraider or the like can read codes.

[QUOTE=AntonRX;562229]If you want I can try check the codes with our workshops tool. I'd be getting rid of Brant anyway. Soon as you can try get some codes should start making more sense.[/QUOTE]

That would be a great help if you can. What type of scanning tool is it?

Simon

I have a ScanGauge 2 which you could use to read codes - The issues you have described really do point to the brant control module screwing with you though.

[QUOTE=RichX;562251]I have a ScanGauge 2 which you could use to read codes - The issues you have described really do point to the brant control module screwing with you though.[/QUOTE]

Cheers for the offer RichX with the scan tool.
[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Why does the CEL come on? From what I have read, the CEL does not come up with these Brant issues. I just want to be sure that I am certain it is 100% the Brant before I go pulling it out.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I have looked at getting the Brant pulled and a new system put in, I just have to call my insurance company and make sure that its cool to pull it and replace it with another system.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]I am still puzzled as to why no codes come up when the CEL light is on. Surely the ECUdatascan should see something?[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]If the offer still stands next week with the scan tool you have I, could come over, or meet you somewhere and we could have a look.[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Cheers[/FONT][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][FONT=Verdana]Simon[/FONT][/COLOR]

G scan. Used on multiple cars. Work fine on subaru I used it on a my02 last Saturday that I took the Brant out of. Has obd general or you go to make model etc

[QUOTE=AntonRX;562264]G scan. Used on multiple cars. Work fine on subaru I used it on a my02 last Saturday that I took the Brant out of. Has obd general or you go to make model etc[/QUOTE]

Cool, I appreciate your help. I will flick you through a PM to arrange a test, if thats cool.

Simon

yep no worries let me know

Howdy,

been a while since I've been on this forum, but someone just told me that you guys have real issues with the Brant systems and so I thought I have a look in. Some of you may still know me from running the [COLOR="Red"][B][I]Max[/I][/B][/COLOR][B][I]Action[/I][/B] autokhana events at Belmont Park Raceway and also running Action Alarms, where we do car alarms & immobilisers.
Now we also used to install the [COLOR="red"][B]Brant[/B][/COLOR] system for Subaru Australia in their compound just after the cars arrived in the country. No, thank God we didn't supply the systems, we just fitted them for Subaru.
Now because we installed them, we do know the systems pretty well. From our experience, most of the problems are with the keypad system! We have heard absolute strange stories of what they have done to your WRX's.
So when we first heard about the problems and because we installed the systems here in WA, at first we were interested to know if the problems were in anyway related to our quality of installation. However it was quickly established that it was the keypad system and not us! Because there were more and more keypad systems failing, we started to search for a solution to the problems and found a replacement system, which came up to our standards. By now we have been using the system just over four years and we are very please to say that from all the systems we exchanged we had an almost zero % comeback rate. To be exact we had one system fail, which was exchanged the next day with no problems ever since.
The keypad exchange system we use is of very much better quality and unlike the Brant keypad system is Australian Standard approved, hence the improved quality!
The PIN itself is programable, so there is no problem in you keeping the same PIN you are used to, we just need a #at the start of the PIN and a "1" at the end. So if your old PIN is 1234, your new PIN would be #12341.
Probably best of all, we eliminated the anti highjack function all together, as it probably was the most hated function. So there is no problem with getting out of the car to close the gate etc.
All the old problems with flat batteries and requiring the master code or a total re-program, cutting out while driving, keypad not accepting the PIN etc, etc, etc are a thing of the past. Our exchange system gets rid of all those problems, or should I say future problems, in one go!
Plus because it is an Australian Standard approved system, it does make all your cars fully comply with WAs compulsory immobiliser legislation at the same time!
To keep the inconvenience to an absolute minimum, we pre-wire the exchange system to fit your particular year and model car the whole job is usually done in less than an hour in most cases and is performed as a mobile service at your home or work!
If any of you would like to talk to me about the system and the exchange in more detail please call me on 9242 4000 or 0418 922 733.

Now coming back to the particular problem discussed above, for obvious reasons I can't be 100% sure, however imho in this case it doesn't sound like the security system at all.
As suggested by some, taking out the system will leave you with no security at all in what is still a target car. The costly removal of the system may only prove that the problem probably is to be found somewhere else. After that you are left with replacing what is quite a sophisticated and well integrated system with another often lesser and for cost reasons cheaper system. Any car alarm company, just like us, would be happy to help you there, however why rip the whole thing out, because most guys can't diagnose the real problem, when the problem could be solved much quicker, easier and cheaper.
What's wrong with good old fault finding??? using a process of elimination, where if need be steps can easily be reversed without having to start all fresh!

I will say that the Brant install in my 2001 was a piece of shit. The guys that ripped it out said it was installed badly.

The control module popped (burned out capacitors) causing massive issues. Getting rid of it was the best thing i ever did.

Costly removal?? Dude it takes fuck all time and costs hardly anything.

I totally disagree with everything you have said and think your post is just massive scam.

Ah me Norbet.

[QUOTE=RichX;563200]I will say that the Brant install in my 2001 was a piece of shit. The guys that ripped it out said it was installed badly.[/QUOTE]

Well, it might be the case that the installation wasn't up to standard. These systems were installed Australia wide and the installers were paid by the system. I heard numbers coming from NSW where they put in 15 systems per installer per a day. We only ever got it up to 6 systems per day. The Subaru guys here in WA dreaded it when they had to ship a car, because of certain specifications from another state to WA. Without us knowing they did check our standards of workmanship against installers from other states and gave our installer the thumbs up.

[QUOTE=RichX;563200]The control module popped (burned out capacitors) causing massive issues. Getting rid of it was the best thing i ever did.[/QUOTE]
Well, the question is was it the alarm module or the keypad module? As I stated the keypad module is causing most if not all of the problems, while the alarm or upgrade modules are working o.k. in most cars. As I stated in my original post we didn't design the brant system and we didn't supply any of it and in my more than 20 years experience in the car alarm industry I have seen some bad system failures. However so far I have not needed to change any of the brant alarm/upgrade modules in WRX cars, but plenty of keypad systems and that's why we looked for an exchange system in order to uphold the level of security required by insurance companies and what these cars require.

[QUOTE=RichX;563200]Costly removal?? Dude it takes fuck all time and costs hardly anything.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I guess that depends once again on the standard of installation and the are some guys here claiming that it is a big job. Then I just did a bit more reading here and find prices quoted of $700+ for a new alarm. However that will very from company to company and level of alarm reinstalled. However that sort of $$$ could imho be better spend especially if one can established that the keypad is at fault and not the alarm/upgrade module. That btw was my suggestion rather ripping everything out first and then what ... .

[QUOTE=RichX;563200]I totally disagree with everything you have said and think your post is just massive scam.[/QUOTE]
Well, if that is your opinion I will accept it as such. However having read through some more of the threads on here, I found some misinformation, totally wrong statements and some totally misguided advice.
When someone (a WRX owner in trouble) asked me to come on here and share some of my knowledge I had some reservations, but decided that it couldn't hurt to offer some help as there are more intelligent alternatives to the "all out approach".

At my work we use a scan tool called carmen lite which when i used to scan my 05 STI had a section "history codes" which stores old codes that are not current but have been present. if you live up near my work ill be happy to scan it for you. im at ellenbrook.

[QUOTE=MaxAction;563308]Well, it might be the case that the installation wasn't up to standard. These systems were installed Australia wide and the installers were paid by the system. I heard numbers coming from NSW where they put in 15 systems per installer per a day. We only ever got it up to 6 systems per day. The Subaru guys here in WA dreaded it when they had to ship a car, because of certain specifications from another state to WA. Without us knowing they did check our standards of workmanship against installers from other states and gave our installer the thumbs up.


Well, the question is was it the alarm module or the keypad module? As I stated the keypad module is causing most if not all of the problems, while the alarm or upgrade modules are working o.k. in most cars. As I stated in my original post we didn't design the brant system and we didn't supply any of it and in my more than 20 years experience in the car alarm industry I have seen some bad system failures. However so far I have not needed to change any of the brant alarm/upgrade modules in WRX cars, but plenty of keypad systems and that's why we looked for an exchange system in order to uphold the level of security required by insurance companies and what these cars require.


Hmm, I guess that depends once again on the standard of installation and the are some guys here claiming that it is a big job. Then I just did a bit more reading here and find prices quoted of $700+ for a new alarm. However that will very from company to company and level of alarm reinstalled. However that sort of $$$ could imho be better spend especially if one can established that the keypad is at fault and not the alarm/upgrade module. That btw was my suggestion rather ripping everything out first and then what ... .


Well, if that is your opinion I will accept it as such. However having read through some more of the threads on here, I found some misinformation, totally wrong statements and some totally misguided advice.
When someone (a WRX owner in trouble) asked me to come on here and share some of my knowledge I had some reservations, but decided that it couldn't hurt to offer some help as there are more intelligent alternatives to the "all out approach".[/QUOTE]

Hi there! Before I go on, I have to inform you that I am a licensed auto mechanic and electrician. I also run a Dynapack 4WD dyno tuning Vi-pec, Motec and PFC, with a Carman Diagnostic Scanner and full Snap-on tools.

I have removed so many Brants and repaired them and tell you what, you will have less problems with any other system. By the way, thanks to Brant for giving me so much additional business!

Overview:
The Brant is made up of 2 control units. The main control unit and the secondary control unit

Main Control Unit: Controls the alarm system by piggy backing onto the factory system. This does the starter immobilisation, the shock trigger, anti hijack and the door, boot and bonnet alarm triggers.

Secondary Unit: Control the extra 2 immobilsiation points including the fuel pump via the ecu.

The case in this post:

#1 Your secondary control unit failed! The dry joints on your secondary board cause the electical arteries to be blocked. Intermittent signals via the ecu to the fuel pump is just not gonna cut it enough. Therefore, difficulty starting

#2 Secondary control unit failed! While driving, the bad soldering on the board agian has a dry joint. The car intermittently stalls and triggers an ecu code --- fuel pump failure! Once Mrr dry joint decides to get a little 'wet', it pumps fuel into the engine again and the car gets 'excited' and decides to run again.

Well guys the Brant is repairable but if the main control box fails, you've had it!

Ok,

Just to update the post. It seems the guys at Evolution R have found the issue. I am getting some work completed there soon and wanted them to give the car the once over today,to ensure everything is ok, prior to modyfiing the car further.

We put the car on the dyno, did a run and once the car had been idling for about 2 min, the second fault from my first post happened. Warick hooked up the scan tool and we managed to get :-

P0340 camshaft position sensor A code up.

Hopefully changing this sensor will eliminate the problem. The #1 issue from the 1st post,may also be related to this sensor fault, however we are not 100% sure as yet.

Would just like to say a big thank you to Mao and Warick from Evolution R :D, this issue has been bugging me for over 12 months. It is not completely sorted yet, but Subaru could not even tell me what was wrong with the car.

I now feel we have found the problem and once the sensor is replaced and if after a couple of weeks I have not had any further issues, I will know it has been sorted.

Will keep this post updated with my findings once I have tested the new part, for any members who might also have this issue in the future.

Cheers

Simon

brant isssue
 

hey my 06 wrx is having a similar problem, firstly it all started when my car didnt start, had rac come out and they said it was my fuel pump, so i replaced my fuel pump which resolved the problem. Then the next day i drove down the road and the car dropped revs and shut off (felt like it stalled) after about 10 attempts of starting the car again it finally started. it did this alot of times, seemed fine then always cut out while driving. I then took it to allstar and they said it was the fuel pump controller, which they changed after a decent amount of dollars spent my car then did the same thing.. so annoying! Allstar currently by passed the fuel pump controller and my car is running fine with it by passed although engine light is on.

any ideas of what to do now or who to go to?

I was led to believe that when the brant enters anti-hijack etc, it cuts fuel. So if the brant is playing up, it will make it look like the fuel pump.

RIP the fucker that is BRANT.. What you have described is exactly what I was experiencing. Same WRX model etc. In the process of investigation I upgraded the Fuel Pump to a Walbro. That didnt turn out to be it & I was stumped to why it kept on occurring, until Mao from Evolution R sorted me out by having the section of the Brant removed that cuts the Fuel. (Went Faulty & is very common)

Have not had a single repeat since it was sorted by Mao. Top work & I suggest you do the same :D

thanks guys! saved me some time and money for sure. The brant system is causing way to many problems for everyone! ill see what all star say about the brant and its issue with my fuel cut off, see if they can sort it if not im going to evolution r !