Harness
 

Hello,

Looking at getting a harness, just need some advice. 4 or 5 point? And what am I looking at to be able to install it, Do I need to get mounts fitted or anything like that?


Cheers

It all depends on what you want to do.

I have a 4 point Willans harness and have been very happy with that.

Install wise, the two lap belts, you can put the eyelet through the stock seatbelt mounting holes.

For the 2 shoulder belts they are connected to a harness bar in my boot. There are a lot of options for these, but make sure the harness installed legally (CAMS) and won't just pop out under impact (some people bolt them onto the parcel shelf with no additional strengthening - looks good, works not so good) - it is there for safety so you want to make sure it stays in the car.

Legalities of driving with a harness on the road are a bit iffy and personally it is a pain in the ass to do it (you can't easily look over your shoulder etc without loosening straps). So make sure you keep the standard belts in.

^^^^^ what John said

I have a 4 point Willans as well. Mine is bolted into the rear parcel, haven't and don't plan on testing out the 'works not so good' but was told that I could put the harness bar in but bolting into the rear parcel is going to be 99% as good.

Revolution Race gear should have them in stock.

Thanks mate, looks like will give the parcel shelf a miss then might take it somewhere and get this done properly when I do it. Just want something for the occasional track day so be good to have it removable.


Cheers

Honestly the rear parcel is fine! Especially if it's only for the odd track day. It is so much easier than pulling your car apart everytime you want to use your harness. If your still worried then wear a seatbelt as well.

[QUOTE=wannabox]Thanks mate, looks like will give the parcel shelf a miss then might take it somewhere and get this done properly when I do it. Just want something for the occasional track day so be good to have it removable.


Cheers[/QUOTE]
MMS can weld in mounts with eyelets at the correct angle behind your rear seat...down side is that you have to remove the back seat to clip in the harness.
5 point is only possible (properly) if you have a race seat with a hole for the crutch strap.

^^^ Correcto.

If I was putting them in the rear shelf, id have doubler plates put on for some added strength.

If the belts are going to rip out (something I have to take into consideration, since I weigh a bit more than the average bear) there would be no point putting a harness in.

Safety first, everything else second.

[QUOTE=Kato]^^^ Correcto.

If I was putting them in the rear shelf, id have doubler plates put on for some added strength.

If the belts are going to rip out (something I have to take into consideration, since I weigh a bit more than the average bear) there would be no point putting a harness in.

Safety first, everything else second.[/QUOTE]
I would recommend against the rear parcel shelf placement since they will be too high and therefore at the wrong angle...and possibly will be rejected by a CAMS scrutineer. Recommended angle for the shoulder strap is 0 - 10 deg down from horizontal OF DRIVER'S SHOULDER. Acceptable is 0 - 40 deg

go to [url]www.rallynuts.com[/url] they have heaps of different brands, all well priced. When I was putting together my rally car, I bought a lot of stuff off of them. I think it was around $150-200 for 6 point Sabelts at the time.

I wouldn't be using a harness without a cage.

[QUOTE=BLUES]I wouldn't be using a harness without a cage.[/QUOTE]
LOL Very informative Fred :D Why?

With a belt, if the roof gets squashed, you get pushed out of the way.
With a harness, if the roof gets squashed, so does your head.

[QUOTE=Kato]^^^ Correcto.

If I was putting them in the rear shelf, id have doubler plates put on for some added strength.

If the belts are going to rip out (something I have to take into consideration, since I weigh a bit more than the average bear) there would be no point putting a harness in.

Safety first, everything else second.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Dangerous to use the parcel shelf as it isn't designed to take the load.

even the face of the parcel shelf IMHO isnt strong enough without some extra reinforcing. There is always a chance that the whole sheet of metal could tear at the spot welds. My harness mounts go through the same way as Nauil's but go right through to a bar in the boot area. I feel very safe with it set up that way.

Same deal to, my back seat has to come out to use them too. I have a momo 3" 4 point harness.

Personally i dont drive on the street with a harness on, just the stock seat belts. But only because it is illegal. I dont really mind wearing one, and dont really have a problem seeing around the car with it on. The only problem is the time it takes to put on and get really tight. Takes a few mins, especially with a helmet on.

[QUOTE=Hurtenstein]With a belt, if the roof gets squashed, you get pushed out of the way.
With a harness, if the roof gets squashed, so does your head.[/QUOTE]

My only reasoning is that the stock seats dont hold me in too well. I just dont want to be thrown around the cabin as that happens to me even on the road.


Cheers

[QUOTE=Hurtenstein]With a belt, if the roof gets squashed, you get pushed out of the way.
With a harness, if the roof gets squashed, so does your head.[/QUOTE]

Personally if the roof is getting squashed enough to 'push you out of the way' you are stuffed anyway.

If you are doing any activities where that is the consequence, you'd be stupid not to consider other safety devices.

Ive seen some pretty retarded stuff in my 21 years on this planet Kato.....:D

[QUOTE=BLUES]I wouldn't be using a harness without a cage.[/QUOTE]

totally agree.

I couldn't be using a harness with airbags

[QUOTE=jEstEr?]I couldn't be using a harness with airbags[/QUOTE]

Does that impose serious danger as you cannot move when the airbag goes off or something like that?? Im pretty sure it was explained in a previous thread about harnesses.

you could possibly cop too much of the impact of the air bag, rather then being cushioned.

I haven't had an airbag go off on me, but I've had my share of hard knocks with harnesses, but would you get enough forward movement to actually create that problem?

I think that the airbag would barely reach your head. Though the thought of wearing a helmet and the airbag going off scares me. Though, airbags dont go off in many accidents anyway

depends on how close you sit really, but the airbag is supposed compensate for the movment in your head after the impact .. the last thing you want is to cop the full opening force rather than the already opened 'aaah cushin'

[QUOTE=Kato]Personally if the roof is getting squashed enough to 'push you out of the way' you are stuffed anyway.
[/QUOTE]

Not necessarily, I think if i had a harness on here, I'd have been fucked.
[URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/7295/b2600lj8.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
And there are worse examples out there.

Would it be possible to get the mounts behind the rear seat in. Get it fitted then when I wanted to drive on the road just unclip the two side straps and take it through the seat and just leave it sitting on the back seat? That way win win really I think.


Cheers

Ultimately harnesses shouldn't be used without a cage, or at least a hoop, at least then you have a proper mounting position for the harness (there are pretty strict guidelines by CAMS on this) and if you were to roll you wouldn't be stuck in one spot as the roof comes folding in. I'm not even sure if CAMS would let you mount your belts so far back...It's been a while since I've had to consult one of manuals, but it seems stupid. The whole point of the harness shoulder straps are to be short, because the longer they are, the more stretch and give there is, so they are deemed useless. IMO you either do things properly and fully or you don't bother at all.

most events are fine with the harness bolting to the floor behind the drivers seat or to the rear lower seatbelt mount. at the end of the day its not [i]ideal[/i] but its deemed safer than just using the 3 point sash. I once had an argument with a scruitneer over my 5 year old harness being "out of date", but it being fine to use an 18 yearold 3 point.

[QUOTE=jEstEr?]I once had an argument with a scruitneer over my 5 year old harness being "out of date", but it being fine to use an 18 yearold 3 point.[/QUOTE]

Had the same argument at the Plex, car was left with seats out and harness in after being at AHG on the weekend prior, scrutineers couldn't fully check it all out (wanted to check if the eyelets were welded in) and wouldn't let me in. So I uncliped the shoulder straps and said, ok can I just use my regular seat belt.

[QUOTE=Hurtenstein]Not necessarily, I think if i had a harness on here, I'd have been fucked.
And there are worse examples out there.[/QUOTE]

Again, I said you need to look at what you are doing. If there is a chance you can roll around like that, why didn't you have a cage/rollbar?

At AHG for instance, there is very little risk of airbags/rollover situation. The harness keeps me nicely in my seat, so I like it. At other events I would decide at the time if it would be suitable to have one on or use the stock belt.

[QUOTE=Kato]
At AHG for instance, there is very little risk of airbags/rollover situation. The harness keeps me nicely in my seat, so I like it. At other events I would decide at the time if it would be suitable to have one on or use the stock belt.[/QUOTE]

Most definately, horses for courses.
Just showing what could happen if you did roll. Which can happen unplanned and unexpected.

Never thought this would be such a heated topic :P, this is only for the odd AHG day to keep me in my seat.

I ordered one of these today:

[url]http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Genuine-SPARCO-4-point-Detachable-Harness-Brand-new_W0QQitemZ190220341709QQihZ009QQcategoryZ43809QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem[/url]

It has been sent out already and should be here monday then will need to take her somewhere to get mounting sorted out. As I said only to hold my while doing the odd AHG day nothing serious. So I think a cage is overkill in my situation, but down the track if I get into something more serious I will look into it then.


Thanks for all the opinions

There are some serious potential roll over hot spots @ AHG, so don't assume you'll never roll it - the drop off edge along the runway side is just asking for it.

Ok harness has arrived.

Installation wise can anyone give me pointers where to install the hooks. For the rear one I was thinking of replacing the seat belt and buckle bolts with the eye.

Then for the front replace the left hand seat rail bolt with an eye, and then then front seatbelt bolt. Will this work or am I dreaming?


Cheers

For those in the know:

- How effective are harnesses with stock STi (06) seats?
- How significant is the benefit of using the harness with a proper race seat?

Cheers in advance.

For the belt ey bolts you can just replace the existing bolts with eye bolts. For the shoulder straps you'll need to get some inserts welded in to ensure that the belts 'fall' within the correct angle. If you use the rear seat passenger belt holes the angle of the belt will more than likelybe outside the tolerance set by CAMS and therefore you could fail sctutineering.

Once you've got a race seat in the standard belt is next to useless as they generally sit over the top of the seat and do not hold you in. Sjould you ever be in an accident there is more chance of you submarining into the footwell.

[QUOTE=danman]
Once you've got a race seat in the standard belt is next to useless as they generally sit over the top of the seat and do not hold you in. Sjould you ever be in an accident there is more chance of you submarining into the footwell.[/QUOTE]

Glad I read this! Didn't think of that, just put a new seat in. Might start using the harness as well now.

[QUOTE=danman]For the belt ey bolts you can just replace the existing bolts with eye bolts. For the shoulder straps you'll need to get some inserts welded in to ensure that the belts 'fall' within the correct angle. If you use the rear seat passenger belt holes the angle of the belt will more than likelybe outside the tolerance set by CAMS and therefore you could fail sctutineering.

Once you've got a race seat in the standard belt is next to useless as they generally sit over the top of the seat and do not hold you in. Sjould you ever be in an accident there is more chance of you submarining into the footwell.[/QUOTE]

I ended up using the rear seatbest holes. I went to an AHG day and was told by a couple guys there that it should be fine. I was very happy with the harness best investment I ever made made driving a whole lot better. Was not thrown around and decided with the harness I will not need to get new seats.


Cheers

[QUOTE=PIGSTi]Glad I read this! Didn't think of that, just put a new seat in. Might start using the harness as well now.[/QUOTE]

Which would be illegal.

[QUOTE=Red_MY04]Which would be illegal.[/QUOTE]
Which I know.....