Speaker Setup Help
 

Hey guys,

recently bought an 03' MY04 sti sedan and I want to upgrade the cabin speakers to produce good, deep, quality crisp sound throughout the car. Not interested in some stupid boot subs drowning out bass on songs and ruining the drive.

I've got no experience with car audio in terms of brands, sizes, suppliers and installation. If anybody could help me out and push me in the right direction to start it would be much appreciated!! especially somebody who has had this model car and gone through the same process.

Car currently has a sony head unit and an amp. Will be able to get info/pics of the head unit and amp tomorrow if that's needed to get the ball rolling.

TYIA! :)

Hey mate, there are a bunch of installers and sellers in Perth. I bought my head unit from these guys.

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/]Car Stereo, Car Audio, Car Audio Accessories & Entertainment - Perth[/url]

Price matched for me from repco, service was all right. I did the install and I have no experience with Perth installers. I have done 3 of my own cars in the past and the best results always come from split channel audio speakers "splits". You can get decent punch without a sub, though an under seat unit can boost the bass without giving you a reduction in boot space. Audio is pretty personal, go to some shops and have a listen to some speakers and see what you like. Got a budget in mind?

A Decent 6.5inch 2 way component setup properly mounted is what you need.
I tend not to use the plastic adapters you can get as they rattle like hell. I mounted mine on adaptors I made myself using MDF. I also Put a layer of dynamat between mount and door and between speaker and mount. I used a set of JL components and they sound mint.

You won't get that good quality deep sound without some sort of sub though. Have you looked at the under seat ones? They are unseen and just add that crisp quality bottom end.

[QUOTE=Jimbo6556;827241]Not interested in some stupid boot subs drowning out bass on songs and ruining the drive.[/QUOTE]

erm, subs [B]create[/B] bass, they don't drown it. Sounds to me like you have heard nothing but shit audio setups and/or cheap, muddy subs that are playing a clipped signal. A well set up sub (ie. ample power and the appropriate volume enclosure) will add to the system, not detract from it. Fair enough if you don't want one because racecar weight, but you're not going to get the sound you seem to be expecting without one.

[QUOTE=Jimbo6556;827241]deep, quality crisp sound throughout the car.[/QUOTE]

As stated above, you're not going to get "deep" sound from drivers in the doors. Deep comes from cone area. If set up correctly (dynamat on the doors, speakers secured on MDF spacers) you will get punchy mid-bass. You could have the speakers play down to 40hz or all frequencies and they will just distort when you start increasing the volume to a reasonable level. eg. they won't be crisp at high volume. The more simple the system, the more compromises you will have to make.

In regards to "sound throughout the car", I'll be blunt here - fuck throughout the car and fuck passengers. If you want a quality setup you will want to create a true stereo sound that is [B]in front[/B] of you. You haven't mentioned a budget which really makes it difficult for people to make any concrete suggestions in terms of brands and level of equipment, but I will suggest you forget about rear parcel shelf speaker and rear doors speakers.

That money is far better spent purchasing a higher end, better quality set of 2-way components (aka "splits" - 6.5" driver, tweeters and matching crossover) and getting them installed correctly - doors sound deadened and a good position for your tweeters. In a quality setup you will want a head unit which will have 4 volt preouts for a clear signal to your amp(s) and you should look for one which has time alignment. This will let you delay the speaker(s) closest to you so that you can centre the sound image in the middle of your dash. The aim - get the vocals sitting on top of your dash, or even higher. This will also give you an even left stage and right stage and therefore accurate sound.

Half the shit I've said may not be relevant if you're on a stupidly tight budget, but I'm making suggestions based on your use of the words quality and crisp.

More info/help if you want it, when/if you state a budget :)

A big plug for Brian Wallis at Autotainment in East Vic park. He is always helpful and cost competitive.

Go see Rob at Volatile Car Audio in Malaga. He'll sort you out.
What style of music you listen to will dictate which setup is best.

[url=http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fusion-Cp-As1080-8-Inch-Active-600W-Slim-Sub-Woofer-Incl-Amplifier-Utes-Utilitie-/261401419577]Fusion CP AS1080 8 Inch Active 600W Slim SUB Woofer Incl Amplifier Utes Utilitie | eBay[/url]

Just slip one of these under the passenger seat.. awesome piece of kit

[QUOTE=dazdavies;827246]A Decent 6.5inch 2 way component setup properly mounted is what you need.
I tend not to use the plastic adapters you can get as they rattle like hell. I mounted mine on adaptors I made myself using MDF. I also Put a layer of dynamat between mount and door and between speaker and mount. I used a set of JL components and they sound mint.

You won't get that good quality deep sound without some sort of sub though. Have you looked at the under seat ones? They are unseen and just add that crisp quality bottom end.[/QUOTE]


Have to agree with you there daz, a good underseat completes the system without turning it into a vibrating doof machine and taking up boot space. taking the bottom end out of the door speakers and putting it into a sub cleans up the sound quality majorly.

Other than racecar/weekend track warrior/ute/total tightarse, there is no reason to get an under-seat subwoofer. They are rubbish. A shallow, 8 inch sub is going to add very, very little. You're also restricted by their weak built in amplifiers.

At a reasonably high volume they sound like a wet fart.

trolley, the one i tagged is sick.. clean crisp.. add very little?? youve obviously never heard one of these things! letalone 2 bridged! id swap my boot setup for one anyday

heres one review..

Fusion Reactor 8" Super Slim Active Subwoofer (RE-SS18)
Wow Sight & Sound - $269.00 on sale (normally $299.00)

Features:
- Very solid Aluminium Enclosure (330x245x78)
- 8" Polycone Woofer (4ohm)
- Monoblock 100WRMS 4ohm Amplifier
- Line & Speaker Level Inputs
- Dual 15A Socketed Fuses (Parallel Config)
- Large 8GA Terminals for Power Input
- Multi-pin Plug for Speaker Level Input
- Gold Plated RCA Sockets for Line Level Input
- Gold Plated RCA Sockets for Line Level Output
- Remote Level Control
- 40-120Hz Low Pass Filter
- Gain Control
- 0-12db 45Hz Bass Boost
- Phase Shift Selector

Pros:
- Mid-priced but one is quite capable by itself
- Good Low-End Enhancement
- Nice smooth lows but can also be punchy
- No Mobile Phone Interference
- No Cabinet or Grille Noises
- Can handle complex lows without fault
- Once level set only limited adjustment required (remote makes it easy)
- Fits like a glove in the 'well' under the ZRE front seats (see pics)

Cons:
- Can produce true 'sub' freqs but can't go all the way
- Can distort when being driven hard

Details:
I only purchased one of these because I had a demo in-store and thought it was good enough by itself. Difficult auditioning a low-powered small sub in a huge open shop but from what I could tell it seemed OK. Got it home, ripped it apart and found it to be quite different. The 8" driver had a single 4ohm voice coil connected to a very decent looking amp PCB. This is in a completely different class to the Jaycar subs as it contained a quality amp containing all the same general componentry found in most standard car amps. They had just cut it down to the essentials and squished a shallow driver into the same box. Good design, solid as hell and looks good too although I think I might paint the grille black as I like my equipment to be as dull & boring as it can be ... love the Stealth look.
Putting it all back together and connecting up the power wiring was a breeze thanks to the chunky 8GA screw-down terminals. I used the speaker line inputs (via the supplied fine yet perfectly acceptable little plug-in adaptor) to keep the comparison fair & accurate plus used the same test CD I used on the Jaycar subs too. The Fusion sub had a few extra features including a 'Bass Boost' (@ 45Hz) as well as a gain control plus it also came supplied with a wired level controller to mount somewhere up-front for easy adjustment on the fly (although you don't have to connect this). After tuning it up for about 60 seconds and being quite happy with what I was hearing I took it out for a test drive. All I can say is WOW ... but I'll continue going on about it anwyay :P
This thing crapped all over the two Jaycar subs running together. It was reaching down to all the low freqs and it didn't seem to get flustered in any way when things got a bit 'technical' and complex. Stopping only once to tune it a bit further and pull the crossover frequency down to about 60Hz I went through more tracks and it just kept getting better and better. At mid-high volumes it still held itself together well and added that essential kick to most types of music. It even doofed a bit when playing dance music ! Very impressive. It treated smooth lows really nicely (sounding nice & caramelly) but did start struggling when they got super-low when the wick was turned up. It didn't make any of its own noises and perfectly complemented the Corollas stock audio equipment without just adding the dreaded 'cardboard' sound as the Jaycar subs did.
Still no alternative to a 'real' boxed sub in the boot of course but the Fusion exceeded my expectations and I can't wait to add a 2nd unit to see how a pair of them sound together.

Summary & Score:
Amazing sub for its class and at a decent price plus fits so perfectly under the ZREs front seats. I doubt it could compete with a standard boxed sub of the same value but very decent nevertheless. Will definitely buy a 2nd unit and run both together to allow better handling of those true sub freqs. So, if you're after an inexpensive way of enhancing your stock car audio system with the added benefit of the occasional bit of punchy doof then the Fusion is the go for sure. Overall Score is 8/10.


Pretty sure the lads made it clear he didnt want a rear sub.. are you deaf or just stupid?

and im not sure about you but driving around with a sub doofing hard in the boot makes me feel like a complete tosser! but i guess it'd suit you to a tea ;)

Anyone spruiking Fusion products should not be listened to for advice in QUALITY car audio.

I don't have a ground-pounder that can be heard a block away dude, and I really couldn't give a shit "if I look like a tosser" because bass can be heard from my car. Ask Soksta, GTB Liberty or dnbosiris what my system sounds like.

Besides, my "sub doofing hard in the boot" plays just the right frequency to harmonically balance the wooble in my clutch.

JBL MS8 , bigger amps, still using OEM speakers in the Liberty ... But what would I know after 25 years being a professional sound engineer for events like Big Day Out for the likes of Chemical Brothers and their ilk.

Fuck all probably :p

Also, earlier this year I decided I wanted to upgrade my sound system after it hadn't been touched in ten years and could do with some sprucing up. I looked at underseat subs originally as I wanted to get some boot space back for a change, but all of the ones I looked at and heard were crap. The bass component of the songs were just lost. It wasn't about doof, I simply wanted balance. Ended up going with a JL Audio shallow mount sub. Cannot fault it at all.

is the guy trying to enter a stereo comp?? such a dick wave trolley. no one cares if your stereo is the loudest.if your happy to look/be a tosspot in your car props to you. the fact is unless hes hanging with dickwavers having a "whos stereo doofs the hardest competition" one of these items or similar would do the job perfectly and not cost him big money and can be installed in minutes. Will it win a doof off? nope? will it sound great at normal volumes, fuck yes

Astralex wins the internet today :)

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2011/10/facepalm.jpg[/IMG]

You have absolutely no idea dude, sorry.

[QUOTE=drewgong;827279]is the guy trying to enter a stereo comp??[/QUOTE]

Where did I mention competitions? Where did I mention SPL?

[QUOTE=drewgong;827279]no one cares if your stereo is the loudest.[/QUOTE]

That's good because neither do I. My car isn't anywhere near loud. My system is a sound quality setup, not a ground-pounding, panel flexing SPL build.

[QUOTE=drewgong;827279]if your happy to look/be a tosspot in your car props to you[/QUOTE]

I'm quite happy to look like a tosspot who knows what he is talking about, as opposed to a tosspot who has absolutely no idea what he is talking about.

[QUOTE=drewgong;827279]the fact is unless hes hanging with dickwavers having a "whos stereo doofs the hardest competition" one of these items or similar would do the job perfectly and not cost him big money and can be installed in minutes. Will it win a doof off? nope?[/quote]

The OP hasn't stated a budget, which makes much of what we're saying potentially useless. HOWEVER he did use the word quality. A $200 under-seat, self-powered FUSION branded subwoofer is not quality.

[QUOTE=drewgong;827279]will it sound great at normal volumes, fuck yes[/QUOTE]

LOL no, no it won't.

OP, please hurry the fuck up and come back with a budget.

ive had one and it was perfectly fine. went with my old car. if this one didn't have a sub set up i'd have the same again. and said once again i preferred it. your opinion is just that. Having a dial to adjust the bass on the fly is a real bonus too. not having to press buttons and settings while driving was a real benefit. and yes it does still doof to a fair extent, and it does improve the balance/ sound quality of the setup by removing the bass from the door speakers allowing more volume with less distortion regardelss of your shallow opinion. It only distorts at near on max volume and is the only time you'd notice any difference between it and some larger more expensive setup. and being in the cabin it doesn't have to work as hard or create as much vibrations to the boot/car. The item i mentioned is clear and crisp.
Just because you're good at arguing it doesn't make you right

I've always done my own setups as I personally enjoy doing it myself (most of the time).

In my old rig I went all out as it was a new truck. Had the following:

- Alpine D/Din DVD Head Unit - Very pleased with the features/ease of use.
- Alpine Type R Splits up front - Once again, very pleased.
- Alpine Type R Coax. in rears - Same as above.
- Alpine PDX-F6 to power all door speakers - Had plenty of power
- Alpine PDX-M6 to power sub - Same as above
- Alpine Type R 12" Sub in Alpine ported box - Worked well as box was designed for that specific sub.

PS: I don't work for Alpine! :D

All in all, you can go out and spend as much as you like but if the install/tune is shieeeet, the end result will be too.

I spent hours dynamatting the doors and running the cabling as neatly as possible etc and the end result was very nice. As mentioned above, ditch the factory speaker mounts, they are rubbish in most cars. Easy enough to make out of some mdf.

Anyone that says splits etc. on there own are enough hasn't heard a good system before or is afraid to admit there setup blows. If you truly are into your music, a sub is a must. Quality gear can be had new online for very respectable prices these days. Stick to the bigger names.

I feel an audio quality (not doof doof) sound off coming on.

Mine isn't loud but it's mint and all the crossovers and slopes have been set to my liking.

I have an old school 6 channel Alpine amp but am only powering the front JL components (bridged) and a 12inch sub (admittedly I have one)in the boot. It's not there for volume its there for quality. My head unit is shit but overall the whole system sounds pretty good. I'll be swapping the head unit for a high end Alpine one as soon as ive stopped blowing my cash on this engine build.

So who's for a non SPL, quality sound off? :D

Won't look back with the Alpine units Daz. Just be careful when purchasing them as accessories for them can cost BS amounts of $$$ so try to get everything you want included in original purchase. I wanted GPS and the module was going to cost me $900 so I went without.

The hands free/BT Audio functions on my old one destroyed any other unit I have used since. But my current setup has Mira-cast which is pretty cool if you're a bit tech savy so no need for BT etc.

I hope there is a P-WRX sound off. Interested to see how epic this fusion stuff is ;)

[QUOTE=drewgong;827283]Having a dial to adjust the bass on the fly is a real bonus too. not having to press buttons and settings while driving was a real benefit.[/quote]

Oh you mean like this Alpine gain control which is next to my left hand at all times while driving? :rolleyes:

[IMG]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15125&stc=1&d=1437709867[/IMG]

[QUOTE=drewgong;827283]Just because you're good at arguing it doesn't make you right[/QUOTE]

What makes me right is my experience with audio and my learning over the years of choosing, (partially) installing, upgrading and changing gear and moving through various levels of quality. That said, Johnny No-Brains knows that Fusion = poo. It's fine for an 18 year old P-Plater who earns minimum wage and wants his first doof. Again, we don't know how much the OP wants to spend, so mentioning brands and particular products at this stage is silly. You will find that what I and about 3-4 other people have been doing is offering broad audio advice which is applicable to most levels of installation and equipment.

[QUOTE=dazdavies;827285]So who's for a non SPL, quality sound off? :D[/QUOTE]

No way, I'm enjoying my internet beat-off too much :D
A WRX meet where a few of us audio enthusiasts could move around and audition each-other's stereos would be a good idea I guess?

What is that tiny little head unit thing! Never seen that before!

When I was choosing my new setup it would have been good to have a stroll around looking at various setups and getting an idea how they play in a real world environment rather than on a shop floor that has no similarity to a car, so you might be onto something there Trollface, sorry, Trolley. Also, many units have dials and many amps have such inputs, so that's hardly a feature of just the Fusion option.

I say, blow the bank, buy the best, eat noodles for a month in your dynamat cladded sound box.

[QUOTE=shaunus;827288]What is that tiny little head unit thing! Never seen that before![/QUOTE]

Controller for my Alpine sound processor - [url=http://www.alpine.com.au/showPage.php?pid=345]Alpine Electronics of Australia[/url]

It enables me to control this on the fly, without having to plug in my laptop:

[IMG]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=15126&d=1437712061[/IMG]

Allows full control of a myriad of crossover points, slopes, time alignment, choice of graphic or parametric EQ... heaps of other shit that I don't use like 5.1 surround sound, automatic sound adjustment to compensate for road noise with the use of a little microphone.

I love the alpine stuff. The best unit I ever had was an old school 7998r I think it was. It had a copper chassis and DB slope settings to die for.

I've been looking at their latest stuff but the head unit I like is $2K so that fucker can wait until after ive finished the engine build on it.

Alpine have always made really good, functional head units. Mine is sub $400 but it's just a single DIN unit and I basically only need a AI-Net cable (a proprietary Alpine signal cable) to connect to the processor and a USB slot. Everything else is taken care of by the processor now. As soon as you go double-DIN, you're looking at $1000-$2000 for something of any decent quality because the large screen and navigation takes up so much of the pricing. Pioneer head units are decent too. Eclipse back in the day used to make some fantastic high end head units but have since stopped unfortunately. Sony, Kenwood, JVC, etc... don't bother unless you're on the strictest of budgets and running Fusion speakers. Alpine and Pioneer have such a large range of pricing levels that you really don't even need to consider purchasing anything else.

Speaker Setup Help
 

If you are on a budget the under seat units are ok but there is no competing with a larger sub. The best ones are what the U.S. Uses where they have an enclosure that matches into behind the wheel arch. Looks factory, has good volume and functions like a real bass box.

I have a cheap fusion tube which works quite ok as because it is self powered it is quite easy to pull out if I need the boot space.

Stock speakers are ok once you give them an amp, a good head unit and take out the low frequencies. I have a four channel Hertz amp. Sounds ok but won't win comps but that is not what I wanted.

Pick what you want to achieve or how much you want to spend and then the guys on here can guide you.

Still love my PDX V9 amp, Alpline single DIN HU, Sub and 6.5 splits. Sounds great, works well. Tucked under passenger seat ftw.

[IMG]http://members.ii.net/~richard.smith/Scoob/PDX.jpg[/IMG]

$620 on ebay atm.

Hey sorry i didn't put a budget,
would like to look under $500!! nothing crazy just need to change the stock speakers they're awful

OK... over to you drewgong.

I'm out.

Hate to be the bringer of bad news... $500 isn't going to do much as far as buying '' better'' quality then the shit you already have.

I've said my 2 bob's worth. if hes running an aftermarket head unit and amp all he needs is some bottom end to balance it out.

OK, serious suggestions now that I know your budget. As I said the other day, I seriously would not bother with parcel shelf speakers or rear door speakers. If you have $500 to spend, I would look at the following speakers, in this order:

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/focal-ps-165-f/]Focal 2-Way 6.5″ Component Speakers | Westside Sound & Image[/url] (rrp$479)
The new flax speakers from Focal are beautiful. Absolutely awesome value for money and can rival speakers in the $700-$800 range if powered right and tuned (your amp and lack of features on the Sony head unit will be a limiting factor but they would still be a huge step up in sound as long as they're amplified).

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/focal-p-165-v30/]Focal 6.5″ 160W Component Speakers | Westside Sound & Image[/url] (rrp$449)
30th Anniversary release P165's, also from Focal. Have seen them on special for $399 before but I'm not sure they're still being made. If they're available, they're an absolute steal for the money.

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/morel-tempo-ultra-602/]Morel 250W 6.5″ 2-Way Speakers | Westside Sound & Image[/url] (rrp$449)
Morel Tempo 6" - Morel are outstanding value for money. More bassy than Focal speakers from what I have heard of them.

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/alpine-ddl-r170/]Alpine DD Linear 6.5″ 160W Component Speakers | Westside Sound & Image[/url] (rrp$399 - on special $309)
I haven't heard these speakers but Alpine's DDLinear range has always been good. Their DDLinear range used to be upwards of $800+ so while they're not what they used to be, they're certainly a much better choice than Alpine's lower level offerings and Pioneer speakers, etc.

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/focal-ps-165-v/]Focal 6.5″ 2-Way 160W Component Speakers | Westside Sound & Image[/url] (rrp$399)
The standard version of the anniversay edtion mentioned above, still sound great. All Focal speakers sound great to be honest.

[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/hertz-hsk-165/]Hertz 6.5″ 2-Way 250W Component Speakers | Westside Sound & Image[/url] (rrp$399)
Hertz are good value for money. These are a touch more bassy than the Focals, but don't have the same clarity. I have a friend with these in their car and to me they sound a bit muddy compared to Focal speakers. These are still a better option than Alpine Type-R/Type-S though, to my ears.

If you really want to go budget because you need some of that $500 for installation and dynamat then these are a bargain at $250 - Morel Maximo 6
[url=http://www.westsidesound.com.au/product/morel-maximo-6/]Morel 6.5[/url]

As you would have noticed, these are all from Westside Sound and Image in Cannington. If you go there and ask to speak to Fabian and tell him that Craig from Perth-WRX sent you, he'll look after you. His installer Jeremy has done a couple of things for me that I didn't have the tools to do and he was very thorough.

Whatever speakers you choose, you should dynamat the doors and get MDF spacers made and this will ensure you get the best out of your speakers (amplification aside). Whether that is part of the $500 budget you've stated or on top of will be for you to decide once you speak to the guys at the stores you visit. Maybe start by asking them how much they will charge for installing splits and dynamatting the doors, then let that pricing dictate the rest of your budget.

Everyone's ears are different and some people just cannot tell the difference between $200 speakers and $1000 speakers. Listen to as many speakers in store on their demo boards as you can. Obviously a sound board doesn't replicate how they will perform in a car door, however it does let you compare apples with apples under the same conditions (ie. all on a flat board, amplified by the same amplifier). Your ears will quickly tell you what speakers they prefer listening to.

Focal speakers are a bit light on in terms of bass, but the clarity of them leave most other offerings at the same price level for dead. Their tweeters tend to be quite harsh, but most of the Focal crossovers have the ability to attenuate (decrease output of) the tweeters by 2,4 or 6 decibels from memory. I used to run my old Focal K2 speakers at -2db. Focal actually design and make their own speakers... they're not re-branded items like most of the audio industry offers.