Targa Tarmac Rally Discussion
 

Hey crew,

just thought I would launch a general thread for discussion of all things Targa and Tarmac rally and get it going by the recent announcement by Targa West (not surprisingly) to adopt the "Australian Targa Championship" (Octagon) rules.

Hopefulyl a good area for discussion on who is building what and what events you are planning to get to and any technical discusssion.

So for all those people prepping cars, maybe have a read of the 2011 supp regs for Targa Tas for some indication of where its heading. (see link below)

I think its good news all round for the future of tarmac rally. Maybe not such good news for people with cars built to the old tarmac rally regs, but long term having everyone on the same ste of regs is a good thing for the competitiors looking to do some of the east coats stuff. I would have thought it will certainly help Targa West numbers a little. As it stood I hadnt bothered with Targa West with my old car as it was primarily built to go east. Now it should be a very good thing for TW and if I still had it I would have given it a crack.

[url]http://targa.businesscatalyst.com/LiteratureRetrieve.aspx?ID=86626[/url]


TO: All QTW Competitors
RE: TECHNICAL REGULATIONS

Following on from our call for input from competitors regarding narrowing the gap between the CAMS Australian Targa Championship Technical Regulations and the current CAMS Tarmac Rally Technical Regulations used by QUIT Targa West we hereby advise, subject to CAMS Approval, our intention to allow vehicles that are eligible under the CAMS Australian Targa Championship Technical Regulations to participate in QUIT Targa West 2011. All Safety Items will be required to meet the CAMS Standards. Open top cars will not be allowed.

We welcome input or comments from all competitors, please email to [email]info@targawest.com.au[/email]

Regards
Ross Tapper

As of this year the differences between the two (for Evos / STi's anyway) were not that major.

Targa West 2010 allowed the use of 3" Exhausts which was long overdue.

The main thing now that you can do is run E85 and bigger wheels / tyres. I am not 100% certain but I dont think you could run a heated front screen under the old Targa West rules.

One stupid thing that I have picked up with my evo is that you can get fully homologated plastic windows. Targa Tas specifically says all windows must be glass whereas because they were properly homologated you could of run them at Targa West.

Brendon

So for those of us too lazy to read :D

+2" wheels both ways, 3" exhaust etc allowed? Free brakes up to 4 piston?

Still have to run the 5 speed or is there a class for a 6?

^^^ John,

one thing I am not sure of is if they are just picking up the technical regs, or also picking up the classes that Octagon run. There are further liberties for Early Modern cars over modern. Eg Homologated weight less 10% in EM, but limited to homologated weight in Mod.

But main ones are E85, 2"wider and 2" increase in diameter wheels. You can fit as big a set of brakes as you can fit. For memory gearbox must be same number of gears, although you might be able to run a dog box. (Have to read up and check) No sequential allowed unless it came with one.

Intercoolers are free to an extent. (max thickness 80mm?? for memory) Cant recall if you can go front mount on a WRX. (Not that I would personally) Obviously wasnt an issue on the EMO as they came factory with one. Can fit hard pipes etc as well. Must run factory airbox but can change intake pipe. Oil coolers are free. Radiators free.

Worth having a read John. Not too much to get through.

Yeah going to have good read. I think the octagon rules still want you to have the original style gearbox casing. It's the one thing that would make an old dakker reliable.

Like all the other stuff re tyres, brakes exhaust though!

[QUOTE=Kato;581688] I think the octagon rules still want you to have the original style gearbox casing. [/QUOTE]

That, and the requirement to run 16" rims (and hence small brakes) were the 2 nails in the coffin for GC8's. The other thing was not homologated weight, but the weight of the road car (ie; complete trimmed heavy shit road going car with spare wheel and all) + cage + spare wheel weight...(again??? 2 x spare wheels weight, WTF?) Meaning GC8's had to run ballast (not that anyone ever did and they never nailed anyone on it)

I've started prepping a '05 shell, would really like to run it as a 2.5 litre/GTP-S02 twinscroll but that might be pushing my luck?

Can run 18's now Doug!

Super bling.

05 eh? +2" rims means you could fit some nice 19" chromies on it LOL.

(In all seriousness, 05 + 06 front end if they won't allow a 05 with 2.5L).

I'm trying to keep the rules in the back of my mind as Blaise/Brendon have attracted me to this Targa stuff, but I need to learn2drive first.

[QUOTE=Kato;581865] but I need to learn2drive first.[/QUOTE]

I don't subscribe to people thinking they need to be the greatest driver on earth to go out and play!

Lots of people just go mout there to have fun, there is no need to drive outside of your limits and you certainly won't be looked down upon for playing it safe!

Just get out there and have fun!!!!!!!!!

^^^ Spot on. From what I saw, the majority of the field is just out having a good time. Probably only the tops 10 or so in the main classes having a red hot go.

Having a closed public road that you can drive at any speed and use any part of the road and know there isnt any oncoming traffic or other cars that arent race cars sharing it with you, is a pretty special experience regardless of how much you are attacking it. Just being a part of it is a huge buzz.

The more relaxed you are enjoying the driving freedom generally equates to getting faster as the event progresses anyway.

[QUOTE=EXPLICIT;582254]The more relaxed you are enjoying the driving freedom generally equates to getting faster as the event progresses anyway.[/QUOTE]

Agreed on the track but there is a massive difference between going out and having fun and driving to what you can see in front of you or listening to your notes 100% and tipping it into corners at full noise that you cant see the end of because that what the notes tell you to do. The most epic feeling at the end of a stage though when you have nailed every apex.

Brendon

Just got told by the targa west crew that they will not be letting in octagon compliant cars into the event this year so no targa west for us
Jamie

Time to start planning for Targa High Country or Wrest Point then easy.

Yeah Jamie,

Just heard myself. Apparently owners of local cars prepped to local rules weren't too happy about it. Bit of a shame and a bit short sighted.

As Danny suggested, vote with your wallet and head east and do the real thing. :) ie rallies with minimal or no repeated stages, epic roads, no chicanes, no restricted speed zones and no max speed limits.

Targa west just seems to be going out of their way to make the event rubbish

What doesn't comply with CAMS rules on the car Jamie?
Is it too much work to change a few things and bluff the rest?

[QUOTE=dtrally;584797]What doesn't comply with CAMS rules on the car Jamie?
Is it too much work to change a few things and bluff the rest?[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly...
E85 injectors? Wheel/tyre size?

Its injectors, E85, and the wheels. So you are up for a set of injectors, a retune, a set of R comps in a size you will never use for anything else and have to find some evo VI rims as the VIII rims he got are 8 inches wide and TME's had 7.5's. (Although have seen V's and VI's running the stock VIII rims at TW. )

Also for me it was hard to get my head around making my car slower for a competitive event. Once you get used to driving a car on any race fuel with the extra torque and power its kind of unexciting to go backwards.

Just extra expense on top of all the other expenses. Was the main reason I didn't bother with it along with cost V competitive km. Ie value for money.

[QUOTE=scary;584760]Targa west just seems to be going out of their way to make the event rubbish[/QUOTE]

+1

:mad:

[QUOTE=scary;584760]Targa west just seems to be going out of their way to make the event rubbish[/QUOTE]

+ 2

The entrant numbers are going backwards at a rate of knots and they are not exactly attracting solid fields like they were.

If you work out the entry fee per competitive k it is outrageous compared to the events over east.

I was going to run it on E85 as a shakedown but the car wont be ready so it has solved the problem.

Brendon

^^^ Yeah, apparently you could run E85 and not appear on the results. :rolleyes: Had one of the guys I ran early modern with who is east coast based keen to come over (keen I reckon) but his car is Octagon spec and he got the news he couldnt run in the results, so I dont think he will bother now.

Hmmm, is E85 specifically outlawed or is it just the bigger injectors that are not allowed?

......because, I can guarantee they won't have the equipment to measure the injector size and secondly, wouldn't bother unless someone put them up to it.

As for the rims, like Blaise said, you'll get away with it as long as there's a few others that also do it and you don't closely beat someone who's 100% legal who knows you did it......???

[QUOTE=dtrally;585101]Hmmm, is E85 specifically outlawed or is it just the bigger injectors that are not allowed?

......because, I can guarantee they won't have the equipment to measure the injector size and secondly, wouldn't bother unless someone put them up to it.

As for the rims, like Blaise said, you'll get away with it as long as there's a few others that also do it and you don't closely beat someone who's 100% legal who knows you did it......???[/QUOTE]

Bigger injectors I believe Dougy...

The last I checked the entry fee for this year was 7k?

[QUOTE=BenWRX;585179]The last I checked the entry fee for this year was 7k?[/QUOTE]

Thats drug money, you could do THC for that including getting the car there and accomodation!

Even TT is not that expensive to enter and that is a 5 1/2 day event!

Entry fee is $5795 for TW.

Just putting this out there incase anyone is looking at doing the triple header THC, TWP and TT We have been storing large amounts of rally cars in Hobart, last year we had the JWS cars, Sammy Stevens Evo, and a few other cars in our storage workshop and home workshop

So if you need somewhere to work on/store the cars let me know and i will hook you up with my old man/brother/mozza (if you don't already know them)

I think they charge by the cartons of beer and sexual favours!

I had a long conversation this morning and apparently the numbers for Targa West are crap this year.

The simple fact is this. Why would you pay to de tune your car to run in Targa West will all its repeated and reverse stages on rubber that you will never use again. Going one step further, why would you build a car in the first place solely to run Targa West? If you build a car to Targa West specs it is not going to be competitive over east.

Yes the social side of the rally is good with everyone staying in the same spot but it is a

[QUOTE=fatboy;585234]Just putting this out there incase anyone is looking at doing the triple header THC, TWP and TT We have been storing large amounts of rally cars in Hobart, last year we had the JWS cars, Sammy Stevens Evo, and a few other cars in our storage workshop and home workshop
[/QUOTE]

Might take you up on this thanks. Will wait and see how High Country goes but it does not make a lot of sense to bring the thing back each time.

Brendon

^^^ Hearing you Brendon. It just doesnt make sense. As others have said, you can ship your car east, get yourself there, pay for accomdation and do THC for Targa West money. 180 odd competitive kms, the roads are epic, (inlcudes a run up buller at the end of each day....no better way to work up a thirst) there are no repeated stages other than buller (would happily do that more than twice) and the atmosphere at the top of the mountain each night is great.

Re your car, I left mine in melbs between THC and TWP and had TMR prep it. (cant think of any more three lettered abbreviations starting with T. :) ) I wanted to do some extra work to it before TT (stroker ;) ) so I brought it back, but ideally if you send the car there well prepped hopefully needing nothing more than the ususal minor stuff between rounds and have someone who can sort it at that end, leave it east (in Melbs after THC and then leave it in Tassie after TWP to save extra ferry trips) and bring it home after TT you will save some $. Drive on drive off cars are cheap on the ferry (car trailers arent) but it does cost a few $ for a sleeper for the night so leaving it close to Devonport and flying in and out of tassie would be the go after TWP.

Happy to chat anytime about some of the logistics stuff from WA.

we are not running TW this year and are going to make our TT debut instead.

Welby

lets just see more skids ;)

[QUOTE=Welby;585446]we are not running TW this year and are going to make our TT debut instead.

Welby[/QUOTE]

Good move Mark!

[QUOTE=fatboy;585234]I think they charge by the cartons of beer and sexual favours![/QUOTE]

That could get expensive....Mozza has a big tank!:eek:

I guess Targa West has appeal for some. If your sponsors are local businesses they're more likely to be interested in promotion to locals?

From a sporting side though, there's no roads in WA that can go close to what's on offer when you have real mountains to utilise and better local government support.

[QUOTE=dtrally;585572]
From a sporting side though, there's no roads in WA that can go close to what's on offer when you have real mountains to utilise and better local government support.[/QUOTE]

There is probably a days worth of roads in the South West, from Bridgetown to Ferguson Valley, plus the roads currently used in Targa South West. There is also some potential in Busselton and Dunsborough, but I'm not as familiar with that area.

Couple of hill climb areas would Preston Rd from Mumballup to Glen Mervyn Dam, the old hill climb at Wellington Dam wall, Mornington Rd, up from South West Hwy. Plus Phils Hill (Flat) the motorplex which the old Dutton Rally used.

Being from the east, WA doesn't have that many mountains as Doug has said, but there is still enough (businesses and enthusiasts) over here if there is enough government support to run these type of events.

^^^^have done either events??? WA does not have numerous 20km+++ plus stretches of good roads to run a significant number of stages.

This is not carpark racing where a big stage is 2km long

A quick look at google maps in this area shows a number of tight twisty roads of about 40kms in length, so they are a bit longer than a sprint.

You are correct, I haven't driven in any of these events as yet, dipping my toe in club events, and SES, which are only sprints, but you have to start somewhere, and our goal, is to run in these longer type of events, if they are still around in a few years, next year its in the plan to run in the event held in Bunbury, and the Shannons classic car rally, and progress from there.

I do, with some mates, run a loop every couple of months in this area, and while you have to remember, the route is a public road, from home to Australind and back, with a stop for lunch and smoke, sees us home late afternoon, and 370km.

Not all of that would be available, but there are also roads off this that would also be suitable, and not all TW legs are 20+kms.

^^^ Tend to agree with you. I think people would happily accept the longer transport stages between legs if the quality of the roads were there. And there are definately some more engaging roads in the south west. I think if there was any future for TW, it would be in the south west, but as Doug points out, trying to get community support in a state that seems to have such a noisy minority could prove to be a challenge.

Tassie has its share of knockers, but thankfully its a well established event and the benefits to the community (one which is focussed on tourism) is easily demonstrated. It is also a reasonable expose of the region when televised.

Anyone read this...seems all the vehicle eligibility info was mass histeria?

[url=http://www.rallysportmag.com.au/home/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5891&Itemid=2]RallySport Magazine - Tarmac rallying gets dirty[/url]

Either way it will be 10 years before I can afford to do one anyways...

The targa west crew sent out an email today saying that it was all too late and too hard to run octagon compliant cars but they were allowed to run in an invitational class. Someone far more cynical than me might suggest that their numbers are terrible and even if they only get another 10 or so cars it might be enough to make the event profitable.

Brendon

If you want to do the event and the only things on the car that are questionable are the injectors and the rim width just do it and say nothing. They won't say anything at pre event scrutiny. Worst case would be if you won and were excluded, in that case you'd get 10 x the publicity of a normal win and you still get the champagne and the glory for the first few hours. If you finished nowhere and were excluded who gives a fark?