Vf 22/23 Vs Vf34
 

Hey guys

I know theres been a few threads about this topic, but i want a straight answer. Got a 2002 WRX and Im looking to get a VF 22 or 23 + FMIC setup done near the end of the year. Currently i have got 3 inch TBE, Panal filter, Turbo XS TMIC and will be going in for a VERSO this thursday.

Just wondering a VF 22 + FMIC, what kind of lag will i be expecting from 2nd gear rolling starts at like 50ks, is it really that painful to drive? i do know that you will also need decap Injectors, fuel pump but is there anything else i should consider getting to minimize boost lag and increase reliability? A list of supporting mods would be useful

How would it compare to the VF 34, the VF 34 has less turbo lag, also less top end and seems the more useful option for daily driving, but i am planing on getting something different then the popular VF34 + STI TMIC build. But if the VF22/23 seems abit to much of a hassle in whatever way, i will then likely go with a VF 34


Any Feed back on the feel of these turbo's is appreciated, or anybody who has a VF22 could take me for a drive in it as i would rather peoples opinions rather then a spec sheet

Cheers

Adrian

Definatley get a Silicone intake. Helps spool the turbo as it is less restrictive on sucking in that much needed air. Reduction of lag you can do a number of things just depends what you want to spend. You could rotate your turbo, reverse your manifold, get custom fabbed piping, flip your intercooler upside down.

Correct me if im wrong but i think the 22 is a Ballbearing just like the 34 however i thought the 34 was just a 22 with a bigger exhaust housing.

[QUOTE=Sphoolin]
Correct me if im wrong but i think the 22 is a Ballbearing just like the 34 however i thought the 34 was just a 22 with a bigger exhaust housing.[/QUOTE]

vf22 will be okay.. vf22 is non ball bearing though, and does have a bigger exhaust housing for more top end & lag.

[QUOTE=confuzion]vf22 will be okay.. [B]vf22 is non ball bearing though[/B], and does have a bigger exhaust housing for more top end & lag.[/QUOTE]

Fairly sure it's a ball-bearing turbo.

its roller bearing. not ball bearing.

i had try my mate vf34 well yea, its nearly like no lag but the turbo kicks
wont last longer than a vf22 ( probably a bad set up for my mate's car).
I were using a vf22 on my 99wrx with silicone intake, FMIC and some
supporting mods, but i dont actually feel lag of it. In person, i would prefer
a vf22 but a vf34 is a new technology i guess.

Whats the diff between a roller and a ball?

i've got a vf22 in my forri with a close ratio ra box and lightened flywheel, the combination of all three works great, sad that my rev limiter kicks in at 6500
:( the turbo just wants to keep going

[QUOTE=confuzion]vf22 will be okay.. vf22 is non ball bearing though, and does have a bigger exhaust housing for more top end & lag.[/QUOTE]

Bingo

VF23 is a ball bearing turbo

[url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/17379-post2[/url].html

Adrian...firstly...if I were you i'd be putting that new fuel pump in before thursdays tune mate, the stocker is a known weak link.

Back to the question....I had a VF22 in my MY99 WRX with a FMIC....to answer your question about 2nd gear at 50kms/hr; if you nailed it you'd feel about a 1-1.5sec delay before you get the boost push. Can't remember exactly when it hit full boost but it was around 3500-3700rpm from memory and that was running 1.3bar with Autronics ECU. I wouldn't call it too laggy but there's a definate pause before the push. Personally IMO, if you were dead set on the VF22, i'd stick with the TMIC (I've got a TurboXS TMIC on my 06 XT and find it a great intercooler so long as you have the right scoop undertray/splitter to match the big TMIC) Your 02 has AVCS if i'm not mistaken so the spool up may be a bit better.

Ask RichX how the VF34 feels in his bugeye.

I wouldn't mind seeing how a VF34/P20 goes with a FMIC setup on a 2L....this effectively will give you more flow than a VF22 with the same or less lag due to the VF34's newer compressor wheel design.
This is the turbo i'm running but on a 2.5L so its a different kettle of fish in terms of lag.

The other thing to consider is that the VF22's are reknown for blowing compressor blades - I did 2 in 18 months on my 99 Rex and I would personally never use one again.

arh yes ive just sat in rich's car and it feels great! boost comes on hard and keeps spooling, oh yes the fuel pump, sadly i don't have much cash to burn so i will have to get the best tune i can with what i currently have on the car. I will be happy with just 220 hp at the wheels at this point, actualy im not sure i will even get that but anyway

So ive heard the VF22 reliability has been a weak point. Some have mentioned the VF 22's do shit themselfs, Since im quite paranoid about the reliability of my car i guess the VF 22 wil be a pass, how about opinions on a 23? would it have the same reliability problems?, i think after all this feedback i'll have to go with a VF 34 with TURBO XS FMIC, unless there is another bettre turbo option

Cheers for all the responses people, really helped!

[QUOTE=BXT]

I wouldn't mind seeing how a VF34/P20 goes with a FMIC setup on a 2L....this effectively will give you more flow than a VF22 with the same or less lag due to the VF34's newer compressor wheel design.
This is the turbo i'm running but on a 2.5L so its a different kettle of fish in terms of lag.
.[/QUOTE]

Mate im getting my Vf34 with P20 Exhaust tuned over the next few days, Sean from ASG says it should work very well with the cosworth internals :) will post up results in the next few days. I am running a TMIC tho.

[QUOTE=B4GT]Mate im getting my Vf34 with P20 Exhaust tuned over the next few days, Sean from ASG says it should work very well with the cosworth internals :) will post up results in the next few days. I am running a TMIC tho.[/QUOTE]

Awesome mate.....what sort of boost you going to be pushing? 21, 22psi?

If you're runnin Cozzy internals, push it right up there .. I reckon you'll do 210/220+ on 22psi with P20 with a 2.5L

The TMIC will be your limit i reckon if you've done everything else. Get a nice big TMIC with a decent scoop and waterspray and you're in business.

Other than that, get a FMIC and accept a few hundred RPM's lag.

I think intra on the forum runs 2 bar boost on his my03 rex with stock internals, vf34+sti tmic also.

2 bar, don't be shy :)

[QUOTE=Thodd][B]2 bar[/B], don't be shy :)[/QUOTE]
Yeah dont be shy thodd

Had a VF22 on my 03 WRX with FMIC. Looking at about 4000rpm++++ for peak.

Tuned by Lane at Racetorque. 1.3 bar.

My friend has a 03 or 04 WRX running on VF34. Very responsive and pulls all the way to redline.

You can do reverse manifold and cut down a little on lag. Not sure by how many RPM. Got to ask some of the guys whose done it.

At the end of the day it depends what you intend to do with the car than decide which turbo is suitable.

[QUOTE=joey89]Yeah dont be shy thodd[/QUOTE]

Lol, i'll be having a crack if all goes well.

[QUOTE=AC Schnitzer]Had a VF22 on my 03 WRX with FMIC. Looking at about 4000rpm++++ for peak.

Tuned by Lane at Racetorque. 1.3 bar.

[/QUOTE]

4000RPM for peak boost/power/torque?

I personally think a VF34/P20 is a bit small for a built 2.5 litre.

GTPS01/02 for a worked 2.5 seems to go alright.

[QUOTE=BALISTC]I personally think a VF34/P20 is a bit small for a built 2.5 litre.[/QUOTE]

Yeah thats what I thought as well as I was considering the VF34/P20 on my EJ257. But went for the twin entry HKS GT2835 which currently hits full boost (1.5bar) @3300RPM, I do admit that I miss the response of the VF35 (1.5bar@2600~rpm) but it just runs out of puff too quick on a 2.5.

[QUOTE=RichX]If you're runnin Cozzy internals, push it right up there .. I reckon you'll do 210/220+ on 22psi with P20 with a 2.5L

The TMIC will be your limit i reckon if you've done everything else. Get a nice big TMIC with a decent scoop and waterspray and you're in business.

Other than that, get a FMIC and accept a few hundred RPM's lag.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure B4GT's beast is a 2.0L not 2.5...

[QUOTE=RichX]If you're runnin Cozzy internals, push it right up there .. I reckon you'll do 210/220+ on 22psi with P20 with a 2.5L

The TMIC will be your limit i reckon if you've done everything else. Get a nice big TMIC with a decent scoop and waterspray and you're in business.

Other than that, get a FMIC and accept a few hundred RPM's lag.[/QUOTE]

Yeah i want the FMIC but im bone dry ATM. Got a wedding to go to in Europe so the TMIC is the best for now untill next year when the flow will be coming in.

[QUOTE=BALISTC]I personally think a VF34/P20 is a bit small for a built 2.5 litre.[/QUOTE]

Definitely....why bother building a 2.5 if you not going to throw a decent sized turbo in it eg. TD06+

[QUOTE=BXT]I'm sure B4GT's beast is a 2.0L not 2.5...[/QUOTE]

Ahh, i shouldn't have made the assumption he was looking for more power in his police spec 06 in the avatar ;)

Would be funny having that on the dyno, oohh the irony.

[QUOTE=BXT]I'm sure B4GT's beast is a 2.0L not 2.5...[/QUOTE]

Yeah mate just a 207 crate block with the worked heads.

No dont have the 06 :( just got a 00 Forester with mods :icon_wink

Hah thanks chee. Ok Roller bearing is the vf22.

I was thinking of going to p20 housing but Sean said for the current application the p18 was fine. P20 will add lag specially on a 2ltr because being a bigger exhaust housing, it will require more exhaust to spin the wheel. Upside more torque i spose.

[QUOTE=Sethor]4000RPM for peak boost/power/torque?[/QUOTE]

About 4000rpm+ peak boost. Made 245awhp (I think) at 1.2bar.

Road tune it for 1.3bar but no power figure.

[QUOTE=BXT]Awesome mate.....what sort of boost you going to be pushing? 21, 22psi?[/QUOTE]

216kw/290atwhp @ 22psi

[QUOTE=B4GT]216kw/290atwhp @ 22psi[/QUOTE]

Fricken excellent mate....very happy for ya!
Post up your dyno sheet.
Did Sean give you a printout of the boost plot....got mine the other day (Thanks Liam) and my 218wkw is actually on 17psi although max torque is made with just over 18psi so you may find your max power is at less than 22psi.

Bet it kicks arse mate.

yeah the tune isnt finshed yet. I can pick it up tommorow arvo, just getting cold start done in the morning, will scan up a dyno sheet during the week, i just spoke to him on the phone today. Im very excited to drive it!!!

Holy Crap Ante!!!! Thats insane. Well done

nice as, so you can say you get an extra 40hp with a p20 and a few more pounds on a 2.0L with a 34 and supporting mods?

[QUOTE=RichX]nice as, so you can say you get an extra 40hp with a p20 and a few more pounds on a 2.0L with a 34 and supporting mods?[/QUOTE]

More than just a few supporting mods mate.....he's running a 207 with lots of nice bits :)

I think there's probably more left in it too especially seeing as he's running a TMIC in stead of a FMIC.

Would love to know exactly how much boost its actually running at the 290hp point on the boost plot.

VF22, an awesome turbo at its inception, was designed to run with a restrictor in place. Will see 20psi all day but don't push beyond that level as it will fail. 4000rpm and you'll see maximum efficiency. In the end the VF series turbo's are good for a true 360hp. If you're running a built motor and to utilise its potential something around 400hp will really wake it up. Of course there are many ways of making smaller turbo's much more efficient (Stace) but for the average bolt on joe, going up in turbo size is the easier/simpler approach.

as jme said, the majority of VF turbos are designed to be run with a 34mm restrictor..

heres a graphy when i first got my car tuned with the vf34. ported the exahust intake side only.

[url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/showthread.php?p=100830&highlight=vf34#post100830[/url]

203 kw aw whith a knock issue at 2000rpm which was causing the advanced multiplier to stay at 8. thats since been fixed and its been sitting at 16x ever since. So there'l be a few more horses at the wheels.