So.. you want your built EJ257 to last? Look here..
 

Hi all,

After hearing about so many EJ257's that have popped, then people rebuilding them with decent pistons and rods, and then having them pop again, you'd probably think they're junk and you have to spend $5k reinforcing the block with liners and close decking to make it handle power.

Well I'm not going to comment on that, but I always found it amazing that Cosworth's crate motors have a stock block, and there are plenty of NASIOC anecdotes of them making plenty of power and doing heaps of miles at the same time.. one guy claimed over 100k miles, and a few are saying they've clicked over 50-60k miles without a hiccup.

[B]To put it simply..[/B]


Cosworth torque plate hone the blocks with Cosworth gaskets and head studs in place, and apparently [B]the block is heated up to operating temperature too prior to honing[/B].. once they do this, they apparently last.

This is important because the bores are out of round from the factory.

Stock bore with torque plate not torqued into place

[img]http://cosworthusa.com/store/pc/catalog/subblock2.jpg[/img]

Torque plate done up as per head stud torque settings.

[img]http://cosworthusa.com/store/pc/catalog/subblock3.jpg[/img]

Out of round by .0023!!

So, if your piston needs .003 of piston to wall clearance, you're gonna be in trouble if you hone or bore without the torque plates. Not only will it do a ring land or scuff a bore once the piston hits that tight part of the bore, but plastic deformation of the block can occur if its constantly pressed and rubbed in that tight spot by the forged piston.. and this can cause a crack.

If you're getting a 257 built, ask the workshop to torque plate hone. There is one workshop I know of that does this and they've had a lower failure rate than some of the other workshops as far as I know.

If you wanna be baller, contact Cosworth and buy their torque plates.. they sell them to engine builders (not cheap!).

So I'll leave it right there... thoughts and comments are welcome.

Its funny Joe cos I reckon with sensible mods and a decent tune they are not as bad as everyone thinks, I've got 90K km on the clock with around 290 or so at the hubs and it was done almost from new, its not like I drive like American Dave:). Guess it depends how much power you are chasing
Al

300-320 would be about the limit from what I've seen, but they seem to make more torque than EJ207's with 100HP more!

Just depends what you're chasing.. I love driving my wife's MY09, its effortless with the EJ25 and for a quick daily drive its perfect.

[QUOTE=stinga;503615]Its funny Joe cos I reckon with sensible mods and a decent tune they are not as bad as everyone thinks, I've got 90K km on the clock with around 290 or so at the hubs and it was done almost from new, its not like I drive like American Dave:). Guess it depends how much power you are chasing
Al[/QUOTE]

oh thats harsh Al :D

Yup this is how my engine from tony knight was done... :D

Agreed Joe, certainly prefer the modded 257 over the modded bug 205 around town.
AMD, I ain't the one with a slush box bro:)

[QUOTE=BALISTC;503609]
If you're getting a 257 built, ask the workshop to torque plate hone. There is one workshop I know of that does this and they've had a lower failure rate than some of the other workshops as far as I know.
[/QUOTE]

Mine had new liners and torque plate bore and hone............still popped and I beleive has popped again under the new owner.

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;503632]Mine had new liners and torque plate bore and hone............still popped and I beleive has popped again under the new owner.[/QUOTE]


Yes it has, engines coming out again soon

I said lower failure rate.. not nil :)

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;503632]Mine had new liners and torque plate bore and hone............still popped and I beleive has popped again under the new owner.[/QUOTE]

No matter what you do to the motor... Can't help poor driving ability! ;)

Stick to the Holden Combo Cuz! :p

[QUOTE=Jimmy S;503650]No matter what you do to the motor... Can't help poor driving ability! ;)

Stick to the Holden Combo Cuz! :p[/QUOTE]
hahahaha Jimmy at least you'll be a great teacher for your daughter when she goes for her license. She'll be an expert parker when you're finished with her.

ouch

You guys are scaring the crap outta me.

My MY06 STi is getting put on a truck to Perth in the next few weeks to be worked on with around the 333hp atw mark. I've spoken to different workshops for months (Allstar, Racetorque, Maximum Motorsport) and there all saying with a good tune this is a safe figure to work with with stock interals etc.

I'm getting paranoid now

330 horses at the hubs, I would be worried too....
Do you really need that much, tbh 280 odd is still pretty lively and I would hazard to say safeish. If you want to go fast put some cash into driver training (this is the cheapest option and you will be able to drive faster than just with a power upgrade imo) Then do handling and brakes, I was surprised at a what decent set up did to my driving.
Al

Disclaimer - yes i still drive like shit:)

Yeah thats all on Allstars roller dyno I think. Is it roller? or the other, I cant remeber, the one that gives higher figrues than the others like Maxmium motorsports which is more accurate?. And yeah, there all saying "Yeah thats ok, but any further and then you ened to move into internals.

Ive got all my breaks and handling stuff lined up, coilovers, pads, rotors, swaybars and tyres etc. So I'm focusing on the my goal of 250kw (333hp) atw which I've always wanted.

So far I'm being told Avo turbo, HKS fmic, injectors, fuel pump, colder plugs, new tune and a few other things I cant remeber off the top of my head.

Any thoughts?

P.s. I'm current at 275hp on Allstars dyno

[QUOTE=Zeratul909;504486]Yeah thats all on Allstars roller dyno I think. Is it roller? or the other, I cant remeber, the one that gives higher figrues than the others like Maxmium motorsports which is more accurate?. And yeah, there all saying "Yeah thats ok, but any further and then you ened to move into internals.

Ive got all my breaks and handling stuff lined up, coilovers, pads, rotors, swaybars and tyres etc. So I'm focusing on the my goal of 250kw (333hp) atw which I've always wanted.

So far I'm being told Avo turbo, HKS fmic, injectors, fuel pump, colder plugs, new tune and a few other things I cant remeber off the top of my head.

Any thoughts?

P.s. I'm current at 275hp on Allstars dyno[/QUOTE]

ASG have a hub dyno, i would assume it reads higher than roller dynos as there is no chance of wheelspin etc. As for which is more accurate, there are too many variables.

A dyno figure is just a guage of what a car can do at that exact time under those exact conditions.

[QUOTE=Zeratul909;504486]So I'm focusing on the my goal of 250kw (333hp) atw which I've always wanted.
[/QUOTE]
Hope your got deep pockets then, Jaron what HP were you putting out when yours went pop? And wasn't that with Cosworth goodies inside it?

subscribed, notice how Joe managed to squeeze a 5,000 reference into his first post :D 'he was priming up ;)'

[QUOTE=stinga;504518]Hope your got deep pockets then, Jaron what HP were you putting out when yours went pop? And wasn't that with Cosworth goodies inside it?[/QUOTE]

365 I beleive and it does have ALOT of cosworth goodies inside but still managed to pop =( feel sorry for new owner

I was doing only 280 on my 2.5 and it still died

Well then its definatly going on hold untill I do more research then :/ haha

Definetly rethink the 250kw.

EXPLICIT on here is at 230kw and is just about hitting the 55sec mark around the short track at Barbs.

Plenty of higher KW cars going around but this isnt match with the ability to get the power down or actually drive the car.

That's where I'd be looking.

stock EJ257, ~200kw atw (roller) is about all they will take, between head bolts and chocolate pistons it will fail with more power

[QUOTE=SL33P3R;504677]stock EJ257, ~200kw atw (roller) is about all they will take, between head bolts and chocolate pistons it will fail with more power[/QUOTE]

Haha ! :) EJ257 = Chocolate Casted Pistons ! soo true

Al I had 365 pony's and it popped twice. That was with everything Cosworth apart from the block it Also had liners. It has also popped again for the new owner. There has to be something wrong with the block surely even though the 2.5s are weak. 4 motors in a car that's less than 4 years old is ridiculous.

As you said I would invest in suspension and handling and then driver training if you want to go faster. Driver training is the best mod of all. If you just want to go fast in a straight line or wank over how much power you have then you bought the wrong car. Fairly hypocritical advice as I love the power but I don't have to take my own advice :)

[QUOTE=V3 RA;504505]ASG have a hub dyno, i would assume it reads higher than roller dynos as there is no chance of wheelspin etc. As for which is more accurate, there are too many variables.

A dyno figure is just a guage of what a car can do at that exact time under those exact conditions.[/QUOTE]

Appx 25-30kw more as the last Demolition Dyno Day showed.

[QUOTE=XT43;504674]Definetly rethink the 250kw.

EXPLICIT on here is at 230kw and is just about hitting the 55sec mark around the short track at Barbs.
[/QUOTE]

230kw? 222.3kw ath to be exact.

[QUOTE=XT43;504674]Definetly rethink the 250kw.

EXPLICIT on here is at 230kw and is just about hitting the 55sec mark around the short track at Barbs.

Plenty of higher KW cars going around but this isnt match with the ability to get the power down or actually drive the car.

That's where I'd be looking.[/QUOTE]

+1 Very good advice. :thumbsup:

LOTS OF SEAT TIME + a good suspension/tyre setup = Smile on your dial.

[QUOTE=JDM_STYLE;504782]
230kw? 222.3kw ath to be exact.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.thecharacters.net/pix/albumcovers/hares.jpg[/IMG]

EJ257 Chocolate Casted Piston from my 2.5 motor :)

[IMG]http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2020/ls7pistonphoto.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;504780]Al I had 365 pony's and it popped twice. That was with everything Cosworth apart from the block it Also had liners. It has also popped again for the new owner. There has to be something wrong with the block surely even though the 2.5s are weak. 4 motors in a car that's less than 4 years old is ridiculous.

As you said I would invest in suspension and handling and then driver training if you want to go faster. Driver training is the best mod of all. If you just want to go fast in a straight line or wank over how much power you have then you bought the wrong car. Fairly hypocritical advice as I love the power but I don't have to take my own advice :)[/QUOTE]

Hey jaron.. was the block CD also as well as the sleeves??

maybe better for that guy to get a new block and start again..

It's not splitting hairs Burke it's just informing you of the correct numbers and there was nothing meant by it. :D

It's in his sig but I couldn't be fucked looking ;)

Jaron didn't yours die at no limits because you blew a rad hose and cooked it? Doubt anything will stop that from happening. That's just unlucky!!

Nah Russ all hoses were in tact and attached. There was no diagnosis as to exactly what happened even with the Motec logging.

[QUOTE=JDM_STYLE;504782]Appx 25-30kw more as the last Demolition Dyno Day showed.
[/QUOTE]

yup, that sort of event is the best way to compare cars, apart from the temp variations throughout the day, same dyno, same day, no excuses :)

[QUOTE=PIGSTi;504838]Nah Russ all hoses were in tact and attached. There was no diagnosis as to exactly what happened even with the Motec logging.[/QUOTE]

Oh man! Thats crap!

Hmmmm interesting read. What about the 2.0L, i know not many people build them up for big hp, but i've got a free one sitting at home i've stripped and i want to rebuild it to handle over 350hp, provided i get that. Anyone know if this would be the same for the 2.0L.

Not many people build them for big hp? I guess 500hp isnt that big these days

yer that's true. spose i'll just do it and see what i get.

[QUOTE=redlib;505086]Hmmmm interesting read. What about the 2.0L...[/QUOTE]

205 or 207?

207 with supporting mods will net 350hp atw day in day out.

[quote=mattmy99;505093]205 or 207?

207 with supporting mods will net 350hp atw day in day out.[/quote]


205