ECU Info
 

Hi guys,

I'm going to start a new project soon hopefully and want to start gathering bits. I'm after a ECU. I'm looking for something thats plug and play and don't really want to go with Motec etc.

I understand Power Fc's are great but not cheap
I would like to have some info about the OEM stuff.

I got a whole engine and matching loom that comes with the ECU etc. But i'd like to look for a better ecu as i'd like to put a front mount intercooler and raise the boost a little.

Everything i have is from a 99 WRX. Don't think its STI. I'll post some pics up tomorrow.

I've heard STI Ecu are better and i'm looking for something a little better that can be pluged and play[IMG]http://www.rslibertyclub.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

What do i need?
How do i know what the 380 injectors look like?
What version STI Ecu's would fit?

Would the following be classed in order of increasing performance?

1.... W9 ECU -WRX RA
2.... v1 sti ecu
3.... V2 GF8 STI Ecu
4.... SA ECU (STI CHIPPED) - V STI 14.94PSI

Sry for my ignorance, i'm still learning
Thx:p

P.s If you have what i need let me know:)

Front mount is wank with a stock engine & stock ecu.

Version V ecu's aren't 'Sti chipped'

99 engine & harnesses will require 99-00 ecu either a stock wrx one or a version 5 or 6 sti one.

You can't mix and match stock ecu's beyond common year for year models.

If your motor is an Sti ej207 the inlet manifold will be red.

all 99/00 wrx/sti had yellow top 440cc injectors.

Is it worth putting a STI ECU with a front mount?
The turbo is a TD04L. Is that a good turbo or like you say wank:)?
Yes the Engine has yellow injectors but no red manifold.
are yellow injectors 440cc?


Here are some pics:)
[IMG]http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/2037/sdc19166.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/2978/sdc19167.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4562/sdc19168e.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/4868/sdc19169.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/4815/sdc19170.jpg[/IMG][IMG]http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/5031/sdc19171i.jpg[/IMG]

Fmic with a stock ecu regardless of which one will be laggy as all fk.

That's a 99-00 Wrx ej205.

Yellow tops are 440's as previously stated.

Tdo4 is the stock Wrx turbo.

[QUOTE=Rossco;591278]Tdo4 is the stock Wrx turbo.[/QUOTE]

very small la

Ok so what do i need to get for an upgraded ECU?
If i want to run a FMIC, what would be the ECU option?
Should i change the turbo or is it fine?

Thx

^ i think you should do a quick search before someone like rossco flames you

they will say, why FMIC? its up to you to change the turbo, so many people have good numbers and still no FMIC... have a look at roughstilling's thread

i am a noob and new too, i wanted to have a FMIC, but look at cost, effect= fuck all, effort= more and for what? its got longer pipework and in most cases with aftermarket system requires cutting of your bumper. also things like stones and bugs and shit love FMIC. also more problems with fmic also. after knowing all this would i still get one? no. same as brembo brakes to some sense. people wouldn't even recommend aftermarket TMIC but stay with the STI one becasue they havn't even been able to prove thats its better.

when i joined i knew jack, but i just searched and learned not to get flamed. i am still learnig heaps but everyday

good luck Guy

The engines out man so now's the time to do all your research.

See what numbers people are getting and if their build allows you to reach your goal.

Cool thx, I'm reading threads:p

But just wanted to know what would plug and play with the loom i have, if i need the v1,2 or 5,6 STI ECU's?

Thx

^ v5/6... however 2 wires need to be swapped i asked roscco before so he will be able to tell you

Having a stab in the dark here but would your want for a FMIC have anything to do with a vortex?

Assuming the loom you have is from the same car as the engine, you can only use a V5 or V6 ECU. I *think* you can use a V5 or V6 STI ECU but will need to re-pin a pair of wires to make it work, same way as they do to use a power fc in same vehicles...

^^ Exactly.

[QUOTE=GX-REX;591349]Having a stab in the dark here but would your want for a FMIC have anything to do with a vortex?[/QUOTE]

Hehe, Yep:p I want to convert my vortex once i Finish the quad Ej25 L series, which is going to be in a few months:)

And yes me insisting with the front mount is for the looks, plus it got plenty of space to put one:) Since my secret is out, I understand that having huge pipes are not the best idea. what size would be good? 2 or 2.5 inch? I've also seen two different sizes, is that better?

[QUOTE=GX-REX;591349]
Assuming the loom you have is from the same car as the engine, you can only use a V5 or V6 ECU. I *think* you can use a V5 or V6 STI ECU but will need to re-pin a pair of wires to make it work, same way as they do to use a power fc in same vehicles...[/QUOTE]

How can i make sure ive got the matching loom?
The wires you ar talking about, are they easily identified?
thx

Where did the loom come from, did it have an ecu with it etc? If it is from an Aussie car, did you get the key, ignition, transponder ECM etc?

I would say your confusion may stem from the early models. A V2 STI ecu can be put into an RS lib and is a good step up. Later models are not as compatible.
The wires that need swapping are in a few threads here, do a search for power fc install and you'll find it. I think it is cam and crank angle sensor wires that are switched.

^^ Yup cam & crank signals wires 0n 99-00.

I'm pretty sure I've posted the info a few times on here.

I got it of a guy that was going to put it in his RS but then went with a early WRX engine for the same reason you just mentioned. I didn't know that. but anyway its going into the vortex and will get stripped to suit by the AuSubaru loom stripper:). Yes i have the ECU, key and ignition barrel, but not sure about the transponder ECM as i don't know what it looks like, hopefully it is.

So those wires, if i use the ECU it came with i don't have to play with them but if i use a V5/6 Sti ECU then i do? did i get this right:)

Ok i'll look for your posts for the info:)

Any info about the pipes?
Thx

Cut a hole in the bonnet and go TMIC. It will be more responsive. Fuck the FMIC. GDA+ TMIC FTW (Spec C TMIC are supposed to be even better). FMIC are all hype I think. Yeah, they are better for lack of heat soak. But that's about it.

My shopping list would be, with the motor you have.

1. VF35 - Why? because you can get one at 1/2 the price of a VF34. With your motor, I would run 1.2 - 1.3 bar (17 - 19 psi) of boost. I made 252hp ATH & 370nm of torque with mine, at 1.6 bar (23 psi). Mine is a EJ207 though. Sold my VF35 for $370. VF34 are $950+ second hand.

2. Catless up-pipe, or smash the cat (honeycomb material) out of yours. If you have a cat in it, I think you will have.

3. Power FC - Why? Will do better than any standard Subaru ECU of your ECU age. One on ebay for $900 ATM. I think its for your model. You can get an ECU-teck tune for your ECU I think though. Not sure how good this is. But, it is an option.

4. Full TBE, should be able to do it for under $800 new, or search for second hand options.

5. CAI, goes without saying really

6. Boost controller. This is a must for low end pull, with any turbo you choose.

7. Put bigger cams in your heads. Your motor is out of the engine bay (I think), saves time and money. Probably look at 264's. Possibly some porting / flowing of the heads too. There are some ported STI heads with cams on Rexnet ATM.

8. Higher rating (opening pressure) waste gate actuator. HKS have a 1 bar one that would suit you I think.

I cant stress enough that you need to remember you have a weak bottom end. You can only push it so much, its not forged. I would not go over 1.2 -1.3 bar myself on it. But it s up to you. VF35 will get you up to 1.6 bar if you want it too, with a boost controller that is, & upgraded waste-gate actuator.

I think this would get you 220 + hp at the hubs with 340+ nm of torque (with head work, or STI heads). Which is heaps for a daily. The VF35 will spool up real quick and go hard till around 6000 - 6300 rpm, until it runs out of flow. The VF34 will keep going another 500 to 700 rpm, but it will cost you 3 times the amount in coin, for another 35 to 45 hp. VF34 over the VF35, worth it? I don't think so, but others do. Its a personal opinion I guess. Power for money? Its always a compromise.

Try to go TMIC for throttle response if you can. Don't forget, you have a weak bottom end, that will more than likely let go when you least expect it. Especially if you push too much boost into it / run it too hard.

Definitely work on your heads ad cams though. This will make a massive difference on which turbo you choose and how it flows. These can always be taken to your next project if you have some replacements.

As for the ECU & the rest of the build, think long term :cool:. So long as you keep the original ECU & other parts. Say you get a Motec or Vi-pec ECU, you can pull it out, swap it over with the standard ECU that you already have and take it to your next project. The money you invest now will save you money in the long run. Just keep this in mind.

I guess it depends on your long term goals though......... I paid $1000, or close to it, for a Verso tune. If I had paid the $2500 for the Vi-pec then, I could have saved myself the $1000, due to changing my set up and chasing more power.

Tell us more what you have now & more importantly what you want out of what you intend to do, with the project you are about to start. We could say get a TD06 - 20G turbo, boost it to 1.8 bar. Your motor is not going to last very long though.

I have a EJ207. I am running 1.6 bar with a HKS GT2835. I doubt my motor will last another 25,000ks. That's why I am building another motor. Remember, Subaru only ever intended the WRX motors to run around 1 - 1.2 bar of boost pressure. That's WRX to STI. Sure they are probably engineered to run twice that amount. But I doubt this would be for extended periods of time.

Explain in more detail, what you have & what you intend on building. My general consensus is you have the wrong motor to be wanting to build up. Especially the necessity to be running a FMIC.

If the answer is as easy and simple as the question, TMIC & Power FC would be my choice.

FMIC. Look for a 2.5 inch turbo inlet to inter-cooler and 3" out of the inter-cooler to the throttle body.

Ask more questions and give us more detail, if you cant find what you are looking for using the search function.

^ fucking great information. not a lot of people mention the upgrade of the wastegate actuator, i have read this in a magazine that it is recommended.

i seen vf34's going for $500, but rarely. you talking up the vf35 makes me want to get one over the 34. it does however make you loose top end afaik but has shit loads of bottom end. not sure on the mid range however. the 34 will come on later but will have very good mid and top end.

descisions descisions, which one lol

now that you mention its for a vortex, maybe a scoop might look gay on it and thats why you may have decided on a fmic. you can just counter heat soak with the water spray, its only at the lights that you would have this problem. once you get going you will be fine

also i think that ecutek is not regarded here for the fact that for the earlier models there are no local support for it. and too that you could spend money on a full ecu that has proven to work like obviosly the famous power fc.

i know you only said it was an option, Simon but even for this the ecutek tuners for earlier models only fly over a few times a year to do tuning

[QUOTE=red dragon2002;591425] you talking up the vf35 makes me want to get one over the 34. it does however make you loose top end afaik but has shit loads of bottom end. not sure on the mid range however. the 34 will come on later but will have very good mid and top end.
[/QUOTE]

You are right the 34 will come on later and make more power. There does not seem to be a huge market for the VF35, due to the VF34 being so popular. I think people dont even take this turbo into consideration when thinking of upgrading. The 34 is bigger, but the 35 still packs a good punch.

It is a good turbo and will cost less than the 34, purely for popularity reasons. Its a great street turbo IMO. I have attached a [URL="http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/general-subaru-discussion/35285-24-hrs-go-2.html"]LINK[/URL] to my thread from the Verso tune. The dyno charts from the stock STI dyno run & overlay of the Verso tune done. The stock run was at 1.2 ish bar, after the tune it was @ 1.6 bar.

You can see it comes on hard and fast and has great low - mid range grunt but dies off at the top end. This is exactly how it felt to drive. You were needing to change gears at about 6500 rpm, as from about 6000 onwards you could feel the pull drop off. This was at the drags of course :rolleyes:

The VF34 would move the chart lines to the right a bit & it would get you another 45 ish hp running the 1.6 bar boost pressure.

The VF35 is just a idea I threw out there, as not many people think of it. I am not talking it up, I am just stating the facts, that it is a good, low cost turbo for an upgrade to a WRX.

Is [URL="http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=subaru+vortex&um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbnid=mqJBveFB9fDOrM:&imgrefurl=http://www.autoweb.com.au/cms/A_55525/title_Subarus-Shock-Wedge-XT/newsarticle.html&docid=fGKxIRDPzgMSjM&w=782&h=587&ei=UsA0TvLeCqLymAXj_sTwCg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=126&vpy=124&dur=1420&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=151&ty=94&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=142&start=0&ndsp=14&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&biw=861&bih=712"]THIS[/URL] not a TMIC on the Vortex?

^ now i regret not buying your 35 :( you sold yours for $370, sounds very cheap or is that what they are worth?

also the 34 is ball bearing where the 35 is not im sure when reading the turbo sticky?

I guess they are only worth, what someone is willing to pay. I still think you will be able to pick one up much less than a 34. That is if both turbos are in identical condition of course.

There was a 35 on another site only a few days ago. They were asking $700 for it, but it had only done 15,000ks or something. Its sold now, not sure what he ended up getting for it.

35 has thrust bearings and 34 is ball bearing. The 34 is without a doubt better than the 35. But people seem to overlook the 35, its still a good low - mid range turbo.

Better stop blabbering on now in this guys thread....

Cool, thx for the info. Well this is going to be my first turbo engine and i don't really want to go with cams, mods $1000 turbo's, 1.6 bars of boost, Power FC, etc and all this really great but expensive gear.

What i really wanted is just above normal, maybe a slightly bigger turbo, better ECU like if possible a plug and play STI one. I definitely don't want to blow the engine.

FMIC basically because i also don't think a top mount will fit under the bonnet.

[QUOTE=RoughStilin;591410]

2. Catless up-pipe, or smash the cat (honeycomb material) out of yours. If you have a cat in it, I think you will have.

4. Full TBE, should be able to do it for under $800 new, or search for second hand options.

5. CAI, goes without saying really

6. Boost controller. This is a must for low end pull, with any turbo you choose.

8. Higher rating (opening pressure) waste gate actuator. HKS have a 1 bar one that would suit you I think.
[/QUOTE]

Could you explain to me what is a TBE and CAI?

Without going with all the good mods you suggested and staying pretty much stock, is a boost controller and a higher rating waste gate actuator necessary?

Would a cat less 3inch dump pipe be a good idea for me?

tbe: turbo back exhaust

cai: cold air intake

dump is part of the tbe and yes it will be good allows better breathing like if you had bigger lungs

[QUOTE=red dragon2002;591475]tbe: turbo back exhaust

cai: cold air intake[/QUOTE]


Ok thx,
For the TBE, what specs? Full 3 or 2.5, 3' dump and 2.5 ???
And the CAI, Do i need one or not? Is that those silicone things?

normally for turbo cars 3'' all the way

cai the pod that sits in your guard with the piping

Oh so CAI is basically a pod filter and the end of a pipe that replaces the factory air box and is place somewhere where it gets cold air?

pretty much, like in the guard usually. i just have a pod filter and run ducting to the pod. also im custom making something from my top side vent scoop from ultrex for more air

Thought of using a WAIC off an RS? Don't you have one laying around the place?
Would be about as efficient as a stock TMIC without the lag of the FMIC.

Yeah i do but its missing the water pump:( I don't know. What about a small FMIC?? Like a half size one? being stubborn here:) Nah, maybe you guys are right. Getting a FMIC will cost me at least $600, a lot more than a Water pump for the system i have. I'll have to start collecting parts now from the stuff i've learnt:)

Thx

Forget the FMIC.

Get a decent TMIC as mentioned above and throw a boost activated waterspray system on it. Read: Hobbs pressure switch.

I have one and it runs off my windscreen washer bottle as i never use that shit.

If you do go a larger GD STI TMIC, do your best to funnel as much air to it as possible (splitters etc, - Note: Big 05 STI scoops look gay on GC's)

That is all.

[QUOTE=Guyph_01;591471]

What i really wanted is just above normal, maybe a slightly bigger turbo, better ECU like if possible a plug and play STI one.

FMIC basically because i also don't think a top mount will fit under the bonnet.

Without going with all the good mods you suggested and staying pretty much stock, is a boost controller and a higher rating waste gate actuator necessary?

Would a cat less 3inch dump pipe be a good idea for me?[/QUOTE]

Well if you want to keep things, just above normal, get a upgraded waste gate actuator and up the boost pressure a little on the turbo you have for now. You can do the same thing with a boost controller also, but a actuator should be cheaper than a boost controller.

Catless 3" dump and a 3" exhaust would be good. You might be able to get away with a 2.5" from the dump back. If this is for a Vortex, I am guessing you will have to get the exhaust fabricated, as I doubt there will be many places offering off the shelf systems, ready for install.

Do you have a inter cooler on it now? The water to air cooler would be an ok option. Better than getting a FMIC anyway. Especially if you are going to be keeping it close to standard.

Keep your finger on the pulse and check here, rexnet, ebay and the likes, and I am sure you will find a ECU fairly soon. You could even put up a wanted thread for what you want, you never know what people have sitting in their sheds collecting dust.

One thing that I forgot to mention. You may want to be upgrading your fuel pump. A Walbro 255, Bosch 044 or something like that, which will fit to your application. If you are going to be modifying your car, this is just a small fee to pay, to ensure you don't lean out the motor, should the pump you have now fail at any point.

Hope this info is of some use.

shame you don't have a later model sti motor going in, i would have had the perfect loom/ecu/wideband setup for you :cool:

[QUOTE=RoughStilin;591571]Well if you want to keep things, just above normal, get a upgraded waste gate actuator and up the boost pressure a little on the turbo you have for now. You can do the same thing with a boost controller also, but a actuator should be cheaper than a boost controller.[/QUOTE]

Cool thx, What actuator would i need? one off what turbo?

[QUOTE=RoughStilin;591571]Catless 3" dump and a 3" exhaust would be good. You might be able to get away with a 2.5" from the dump back. If this is for a Vortex, I am guessing you will have to get the exhaust fabricated, as I doubt there will be many places offering off the shelf systems, ready for install. [/QUOTE]

Yep it will have to be custom made, more $$ here :(

[QUOTE=RoughStilin;591571]Do you have a inter cooler on it now? The water to air cooler would be an ok option. Better than getting a FMIC anyway. Especially if you are going to be keeping it close to standard. [/QUOTE]

I've got a complete WTAIC but its missing the water pump. I also have two top mounts but pretty std ones. not even sure what they are off?
[IMG]http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/1736/photo0308.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3299/photo0306zbs.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=RoughStilin;591571]Keep your finger on the pulse and check here, rexnet, ebay and the likes, and I am sure you will find a ECU fairly soon. You could even put up a wanted thread for what you want, you never know what people have sitting in their sheds collecting dust. [/QUOTE]

Thats what i started to do:p So to clarify, I need a V5 or V6 Sti ECU?
Oh my loom has 3 plugs, does that still match the V5/6?

[QUOTE=RoughStilin;591571]One thing that I forgot to mention. You may want to be upgrading your fuel pump. A Walbro 255, Bosch 044 or something like that, which will fit to your application. If you are going to be modifying your car, this is just a small fee to pay, to ensure you don't lean out the motor, should the pump you have now fail at any point.

Hope this info is of some use.[/QUOTE]
Yes i figured that i would have to at least buy a walbro,
Thx so much for the info:)

Ok I haven't read the whole thread, but I can see far too much bad information floating around in some posts.

[QUOTE=Guyph_01;591471]Cool, thx for the info. Well this is going to be my first turbo engine and i don't really want to go with cams, mods $1000 turbo's, 1.6 bars of boost, Power FC, etc and all this really great but expensive gear.

What i really wanted is just above normal, maybe a slightly bigger turbo, better ECU like if possible a plug and play STI one. I definitely don't want to blow the engine.[/quote]

Yes you can put a STi ecu for the same year as your wrx ecu in. This will only be of benefit if you have a sti spec VF series turbo to go with it. I would not run a sti ecu on a wrx engine with a td04 without getting the afr's checked on a dyno.

You don't want the car to pop, but you want to cheap out on the main part that causes the car's motor to pop? Leave the stock ecu and stock turbo on then? Why bother changing turbo's if you don't plan to maximise what you are doing?

If it was me, I'd spend the money on a PowerFC ($600-1000) and get a tune with your current TD04 ($400-600). All up you are spending $1000-$1500. This is the cost of a VF series turbo that everyone is recommending. And then you need to buy another ecu and and and and...

Advantage of getting the ecu towards the start (imo anyway) is you can later upgrade the turbo/headers/cams/intake etc and all you need to do is get a retune.

[QUOTE=Guyph_01;591471]
FMIC basically because i also don't think a top mount will fit under the bonnet.[/quote]

What car? TMIC fits Liberty's, Imprezas, Foresters etc etc. So why won't it fit here?

[QUOTE=Guyph_01;591471]
Could you explain to me what is a TBE and CAI?[/quote]

You want a 3" TBE (turbo back exhaust).

CAI (cold air intakes) are a load of crap. You risk sucking water up on wet days, they provide no extra performance but only provide some extra noise.

Best bet is a quality non-oiled panel filter imo, until you reach a much higher horsepower level.

[QUOTE=Guyph_01;591471]
Without going with all the good mods you suggested and staying pretty much stock, is a boost controller and a higher rating waste gate actuator necessary? [/quote]

Boost controllers and upgraded WGA without a re-programable ecu means you will probably pop your motor. You should never just up the boost without also looking at fuelling, timing etc.

I see no point spending a few hundred bucks for an upgraded WGA when you aren't wanting to spend on a ecu. Also, I see no point for an upgraded WGA if you haven't pushed the stock unit to the maximum first.

[QUOTE=Guyph_01;591471]
Would a cat less 3inch dump pipe be a good idea for me?[/QUOTE]

Please ensure you keep at least 1 cat in the exhaust system.

nah take the cat out^

it's better for the environment and makes your exhaust smell good

[QUOTE=Kato;591766]Ok I haven't read the whole thread, but I can see far too much bad information floating around in some posts.


What car? TMIC fits Liberty's, Imprezas, Foresters etc etc. So why won't it fit here?

[/QUOTE]

Thats why you should have read it from the start:) Its all going into a vortex. I've heard that even the intake manifold doesn't clear or is very close and a buldge need to be made in the bonnet. Btw, thx for the info:)

This is what i'm aiming for, (hope the owner doesn't mind me using his pics)


[IMG]http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q4/WRC22B/Car%20Stuff/Muzzs%20Beast/MuzzasBeast.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q4/WRC22B/Car%20Stuff/Muzzs%20Beast/2.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q4/WRC22B/Car%20Stuff/Muzzs%20Beast/3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q4/WRC22B/Car%20Stuff/Muzzs%20Beast/5.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

^ the rims are hot, i want them. tell me where he/she lives and when they wake up they will find bricks to replacing them *jokes*

the car reminds me of my old prelude, you don't see a vortex everyday TBH i knew nothing about them till i went over and bought the window off you guy. it will be one sweet project, good luck with it all :)

Oh sweet, vortex's are cool in a weird way.

I'd personally plan the build from start to finish and prep the car to suit.

i.e. upside down fmic with reversed manifold and correct dia piping to ensure lag is a minimum. Upgraded turbo (VF34 for earlier spool or bigger like a TD05-20G). Definately budget in an ECU i.e. PowerFC, Vipec, Autronic or Motec. Full 3" exhaust.

Wham bam thank you ma'am, you have a weapon.