Hi im interested in a process west intercooler and a tune i have a 3 inch turbo back exhaust my car is a my 07 wrx just wondering if this is a good upgrade for my car and I was thinking of changing my fuel pump if needed and how much this will cost do you supply process west intercoolers ??

any advice is appreciated

Power runs are runs done at WOT (wide open throttle). It is a guage for max hp a car produces under WOT conditions.

There are those who look at the graphs and comment at Torque under WOT. I do not drive my car under 4500 rpm on the drags and wait for my turbo to spool up.

On the track and/or on the road, I will not be under WOT condition all the time(not even half the time).

Power runs are a guage of your vehicle under WOT conditions and it does not show you how the car is performing under other load vs rpm conditions. It is only a good indicator of max power and torque.

Dyno figures will differ from dyno to dyno, but a WOT power run is a good indicator of where ther power and torque of your vehicle is before and after a tune..

Hi Rob,

Is it the GD 07 WRX? PM sent.

[QUOTE=Rob83;635931]Hi im interested in a process west intercooler and a tune i have a 3 inch turbo back exhaust my car is a my 07 wrx just wondering if this is a good upgrade for my car and I was thinking of changing my fuel pump if needed and how much this will cost do you supply process west intercoolers ??

any advice is appreciated[/QUOTE]

How did the power run go Dave?

Stopped in to see Mao but he was tied up with another car. Will arrange to go back soon to get power run in.

We just finished retuning Jon's MY11.

An unregistered tuner by the name of 3GWRX with a Dyno downloaded from the internet will say it is the stock tune too, but unfortunately it is a proper tune done on a proper dyno with HKS Knock Amp equipement and done in a licensed workshop.

Will post results up shortly.

if it is a proper tune then why is it unfortunate ?

What are u talking about, i must of missed something. Where are these posts/comments from 3gwrx?

Mr Dave, I will just leave it at that.

Just a refresher: [URL]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/mechanicals/41656-perth-tuner-heads-up.html[/URL]

[QUOTE=American Dave;636854]if it is a proper tune then why is it unfortunate ?[/QUOTE]

Ummmm, what has 3gwrx got to do with your tunes? Why are you even mentioning them?

i think what mao is trying to say is that 3GWRX should have dyno tuned it and check it with the HKS Knock Sensor and not rely on road tune.

I'm assuming its on the verge of pinging

Road tuning is fine if the AFR (wideband Lambda sensor is used in combo) is checked

From what i can gather jon911 never had a tune from 3gwrx. He had the asg tune in when he got it retuned. So why the hate?

Some info on Jon's tune can be seen at:
[url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/your-driveway/42607-jons-my11-13.html#post636878[/url]

Will post more details up shortly.

[QUOTE=stoff;636865]Ummmm, what has 3gwrx got to do with your tunes? Why are you even mentioning them?[/QUOTE]

Why are you going on about it!!

[QUOTE=stoff;636870]From what i can gather jon911 never had a tune from 3gwrx. He had the asg tune in when he got it retuned. So why the hate?[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/636610-post44.html[/url]

Look at the AFR 11.2. The accuracy in holding it at 11.2 all the way. Road tune my arse. He used my so called stock tune and richened it abit on low rpms which shouldnt be the case (knock on low loads or rpm is harmless and should be used to conserve fuel). He then kept my 'stock tune' at 11.2 all the way --- LOL, if it was stock ecu tune, why keep it at 11.2 AFR?

Also he obviously was trashing the car in 3rd to generate this Virtual graph with a result of 500Nm of torque. Wow 500Nm!!! Can you actually see any discrepancies in the tune when you are using a smoothing factor on the virtual dyno --- answer is no, if there was a quick miss or knock, you won't know.

He is lucky he didnt blow the car up while tuning as I had the AFRs spot on at 11.2, let alone 1.22 bar of boost on stock internals. Why bother buying an STi if a WRX can drive reliably at 1.22 bar of boost.

He also claims that the boost was not altered in anyway, yet he didnt know that after we fitted the Invidia dump, Perrin headers and PW top mount kindly supplied by Ken, the car overboosted on the dyno above one bar. So the car mysteriously lowered it's boost then.

If you look at power chart or should I say 'VIRTUAL' power chart, he assumes or states the tune in red is mine and yet the other two are done on rolling starts while the red one which apparently is mine is done from standstill.



[QUOTE=STI325V6;636882]Why are you going on about it!![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=TROLLEY;636883][URL]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/636610-post44.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

The virtual chart that i posted, all 3 lines were done on rolling start.
We did a rolling start of your tune first, looked at the data, flashed the new tune, did a rolling start for that, tweaked it, then did a last rolling start.

[QUOTE=mao;636886]
If you look at power chart or should I say 'VIRTUAL' power chart, he assumes or states the tune in red is mine and yet the other two are done on rolling starts while the red one which apparently is mine is done from standstill.[/QUOTE]

I for one, appreciate Mao's honesty.
Looks to me like 3gwrx was trying to 'bag' Evo R to his customer in the first instance (i.e 'look at my virtual dyno plot, see the gains I made over that other tune?').

Are virtual dyno's a 'proper' tuning tool? I don't think so, how can you see how the tune behaves WOT in 4th, where the engine sees maximum load over the longest time & has the highest chance of knocking? Simple answer is you can't.

I road tune cars myself, but I err on the side of safety running between high 10 to low 11 afrs at wot & fairly soft timing up top. My tunes may not make the highest possible HP, but I can rest easy knowing they are safe for the long term. Most of the gains I tend to concentrate on are in the midrange RPM's anyway.

I might drop in next week Mao, I'd like you to drive my car & let me know what you think.

I pointed this out as the Red line starts from the beginning but the 2 other lines are obviously rolling as the logging was done after. The starting conditions on the 'virtual dyno' is not the same.

If the AFR was out on my tune, why was the same AFR used from 3000rpm onwards, while the only adjustments in AFR was below 3000rpm where it was made more rich.

The ROM in the ecu is actually an MY09 with stock boost set at 13.3PSi and not 14.2PSi like the MY10 and MY11 Roms. Standard Rom does not set it to 16PSi.

Below is how your ROM looks like at WOT:
[IMG]http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3830/dsc02004t.jpg[/IMG]


Also, please note that warranty does not apply on work done by non-registered workshops as they do not meet skill certification required by the government.

The list of registered workshops where work is performed to maintain new car warranty and after sales/service warranty is listed below:
[url=http://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/ConsumerProtection/MV_Reports/repair_businessname.asp]Repairer Licensing Report - by business name - Consumer Protection - Department of Commerce[/url]

[QUOTE=iceken;636927]The virtual chart that i posted, all 3 lines were done on rolling start.
We did a rolling start of your tune first, looked at the data, flashed the new tune, did a rolling start for that, tweaked it, then did a last rolling start.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the input Rossco. Anyone tuner will know that the 11.2 AFR on the log from 3000 to redline at WOT was just too accurate to be achieved through a road tune. And also, there were no changes in the AFR at all from 3000rpm onwards, yet I was accused that the 11.2 was stock ROM, whilall he did was increase the boost to 1.22bar.

I will also post up the boost logs on the Dynapack tmr as Kennedy also told me that 3GWRX said my tune hit 16.3PSi and he only added 1.7PSi to get the 500Nm on his internet dyno.

Anyway how's things? It looks like you have retired from this forum business. LOL

[QUOTE=Rossco;636928]I for one, appreciate Mao's honesty.
Looks to me like 3gwrx was trying to 'bag' Evo R to his customer in the first instance (i.e 'look at my virtual dyno plot, see the gains I made over that other tune?').

Are virtual dyno's a 'proper' tuning tool? I don't think so, how can you see how the tune behaves WOT in 4th, where the engine sees maximum load over the longest time & has the highest chance of knocking? Simple answer is you can't.

I road tune cars myself, but I err on the side of safety running between high 10 to low 11 afrs at wot & fairly soft timing up top. My tunes may not make the highest possible HP, but I can rest easy knowing they are safe for the long term. Most of the gains I tend to concentrate on are in the midrange RPM's anyway.

I might drop in next week Mao, I'd like you to drive my car & let me know what you think.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=mao;637201]

Anyway how's things? It looks like you have retired from this forum business. LOL[/QUOTE]

Just pursuing some other interests (flying & Photography) & I'm enjoying a month off between jobs.

More to be done on my STi next year, the job I've just left had left me fed up with cars/automotive in general.

I'll swing past this week & say g'day.

Thank you P.WRX for your continual support.

We have been working on a lot of MY08 - MY11 Imprezas of late and I will post some data that I hope will be helpful to P.WRX members modding their late model Imprezas.
I also thought this would be appropriate before posting the tune on Jon's MY11.

After the recent number of tunes of the current model Imprezas, we have found that the stock solenoid is inadequate for a flash tune as it does not allow boost to hold well. Also, plumbing an aftermarket boost solenoid correctly is very important.

Other than the turbo back exhaust, cold air intakes, headers and larger intercoolers also contribute to the overall performance and power gains from flash tunes on the late model Rexes.

Below is data on a soft tune on GR STi. The car came in with a Butler exhaust which gave it a max of 1.05 bar of boost. Everything else was bone stock. Vehicle hit 224hp on the power run before tuning.

PLS NOTE: This tune is unfinished. We are awaiting further mods to be done on this vehicle to complete the tune.

Soft tune on the stock 2008 GR STi with ineffective stock boost control when flashed 1.35bar of boost --- in this instance an aftermarket solenoid is recommended for the STi to hold high boost:
[IMG]http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/7416/dsc02057i.jpg[/IMG]

Even with minor tweaking of the ignition tables and fuel tables, we can see how easy it is to gain power on the new STis even with less than 1 bar of boost.
[IMG]http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8526/dsc02058l.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8526/dsc02058l.jpg[/IMG]

Also, as mentioned before and relevant for MY08-MY11, the below are the boost curves from Iceken's tune.

Boost curve with air intake and exhaust as it came in:
[IMG]http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3776/dsc02063q.jpg[/IMG]

Boost curve with headers, top mount and front pipe fitted (Also included is test boost tuning which at one stage achieved 275hp):
[IMG]http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/328/dsc02064qe.jpg[/IMG]

Reduction in boost to achieve 268hp safely with proper AFR and good ignition timing:
[IMG]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/606/dsc02062sn.jpg[/IMG]

We just did a power run on a P.WRX WRP10.

Below is an impresive power run maxing at 203hp on a stock WRP10:
[IMG]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7341/dsc02061ug.jpg[/IMG]

Hi Mao,

Sorry to chime in so late into this thread..

Umm dare i ask whats happening around the 4000rpm mark and also at top end around the 6250 mark?

Some awful valleys in that region..

As per the power run of the factory-tuned WRP10:

4000rpm: In this instance the vehicle overboosted slightly above one bar and stock ecu was pulling back the boost quickly.
6250rpm: Boost weening low and car running out of power and torque on a typical unmodded WRX towards the higher rpm.

In factory tunes, Subarus are set such that you will feel the initial pull at lower rpms and then boost is taken off quickly higher up. This gives the customer an initial boost/pull sensation, while keeping the engine very safe.

[QUOTE=Intra;638563]Hi Mao,

Sorry to chime in so late into this thread..

Umm dare i ask whats happening around the 4000rpm mark and also at top end around the 6250 mark?

Some awful valleys in that region..[/QUOTE]

Sorry Mao, i should have been more specific.

I was inquiring about the MY08-MY11 tune on the first couple of pictures.

If that's power after a tuned run.. it seems to mimic the original factory tune, have you adjusted anything else?

Just wondering if you can submit a few more in-depth reasoning, cause something in my mind doesn't add up.



[QUOTE=mao;638567]As per the power run of the factory-tuned WRP10:

4000rpm: In this instance the vehicle overboosted slightly above one bar and stock ecu was pulling back the boost quickly.
6250rpm: Boost weening low and car running out of power and torque on a typical unmodded WRX towards the higher rpm.

In factory tunes, Subarus are set such that you will feel the initial pull at lower rpms and then boost is taken off quickly higher up. This gives the customer an initial boost/pull sensation, while keeping the engine very safe.[/QUOTE]

Hi Intra,

If you don't mind, please read the thread again.

As stated, tune is unfinished due to lack of couple of items needed like the boost solenoid to control high boost. This can be seen in the boost curve.

Tks.

[QUOTE=Intra;638658]Sorry Mao, i should have been more specific.

I was inquiring about the MY08-MY11 tune on the first couple of pictures.

If that's power after a tuned run.. it seems to mimic the original factory tune, have you adjusted anything else?

Just wondering if you can submit a few more in-depth reasoning, cause something in my mind doesn't add up.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=mao;637906]We just did a power run on a P.WRX WRP10.

Below is an impresive power run maxing at 203hp on a stock WRP10:
[IMG]http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/7341/dsc02061ug.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

jesus,

did that have an exhaust and an intake?
or actually bone stock?

Hi Mao,

Thanks for pointing me to the "fine print", i notice that boost comes up on song about 3400RPM which is granted. However you see quite a sudden drop which follows that is caused by a PID compensation map.

Subaru boost control works like this..

1. Lookup target.
2. Use initial duty
3. Check pressure
4. Apply conditions ( IS pressure above or below target)
5. Based on condition apply burst until max duty limit
6. Target met.. apply integral to maintain pressure
7. Repeat from start

Logically one would assume that if the stock boost controller could not control 18 pound of boost that you'll see a almost linear decline on the MAP as the actuator is swung wide open to bypass exhaust gas.

What wastegate duties are you running?



[QUOTE=mao;638677]Hi Intra,

If you don't mind, please read the thread again.

As stated, tune is unfinished due to lack of couple of items needed like the boost solenoid to control high boost. This can be seen in the boost curve.

Tks.[/QUOTE]

Hi Intra,

Don't pay too much attention to the above pics as I put them there as just an example of how a little adjustment of AFRs and timing and low boost can still gain over 20hp on the late model 2.5s.

The car actually had been tuned to run slightly less than 1.1bar (as stable as the solenoid would allow) before it left. I will search for the graph and PM it to you.

I delibrately left out the final close-up boost graph as I did not want to share the settings and data online. The boost graph was closed in and magnified so we can see the actual fluctuations in boost as the solenoid tries to hold the boost.

Basically the magnified curve with target boost set was not holding well with the factory boost solenoid so we rather have a proper aftermarket solenoid to hold boost stably, especially when target boost is set higher.

My initial idea was to do a run down on the MY08-12s and then post Jon's MY11 tune to clarify:
[url]http://www.perth-wrx.com/vb/your-driveway/42607-jons-my11-13.html[/url]

Will find time to post Jon's tune soon.

Anyway, PM sent. Have a Merry Christmas and a happy new year!



[QUOTE=Intra;638689]Hi Mao,

Thanks for pointing me to the "fine print", i notice that boost comes up on song about 3400RPM which is granted. However you see quite a sudden drop which follows that is caused by a PID compensation map.

Subaru boost control works like this..

1. Lookup target.
2. Use initial duty
3. Check pressure
4. Apply conditions ( IS pressure above or below target)
5. Based on condition apply burst until max duty limit
6. Target met.. apply integral to maintain pressure
7. Repeat from start

Logically one would assume that if the stock boost controller could not control 18 pound of boost that you'll see a almost linear decline on the MAP as the actuator is swung wide open to bypass exhaust gas.

What wastegate duties are you running?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jordiee;638684]jesus,

did that have an exhaust and an intake?
or actually bone stock?[/QUOTE]

hey jordiee the car is owned by daz it has butler exhaust and that's it and everything in the whiteline catalogue but you also need to remember it is a wp10 with a tuned by sti ecu from factory so has a bit more poke than the standard wrx gives my car a run at the start before the vf34p20 spools :D

ah okay that makes sense, i was a bit depressed for a second

How much to fit a vipec and tune.. I have the vipec
It's a pnp for a 97

[QUOTE=Jordiee;638831]ah okay that makes sense, i was a bit depressed for a second[/QUOTE]
you need to wind the boost up and fuel pump should be good for 190 odd kw but cannot give any promise on how long you motor is going to last:D

PM sent.

[QUOTE=RSR-WRC;638838]How much to fit a vipec and tune.. I have the vipec
It's a pnp for a 97[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Intra;638689]Hi Mao,

Thanks for pointing me to the "fine print", i notice that boost comes up on song about 3400RPM which is granted. However you see quite a sudden drop which follows that is caused by a PID compensation map.

Subaru boost control works like this..

1. Lookup target.
2. Use initial duty
3. Check pressure
4. Apply conditions ( IS pressure above or below target)
5. Based on condition apply burst until max duty limit
6. Target met.. apply integral to maintain pressure
7. Repeat from start

Logically one would assume that if the stock boost controller could not control 18 pound of boost that you'll see a almost linear decline on the MAP as the actuator is swung wide open to bypass exhaust gas.

What wastegate duties are you running?[/QUOTE]

to point out the main point here he stated that the customer is adding moremods so the tune wasnot cleaned up lets all just wait till the tune and mods have been completed before jumping to unjust conclusions

[QUOTE=munya;638873]you need to wind the boost up and fuel pump should be good for 190 odd kw but cannot give any promise on how long you motor is going to last:D[/QUOTE]

hahahah nah she'll be right, she's gotten this far

wait til it gets to 40 C for tuning ;)

When did motors become a consumable item? :)

If only we could head down to a workshop and select a motor like a HP print cartridge without the burning hole in your wallet :D

[QUOTE=munya;638873]you need to wind the boost up and fuel pump should be good for 190 odd kw but cannot give any promise on how long you motor is going to last:D[/QUOTE]