The sad fact about all these people cropping up that claim they can tune don't have the engineering background required to understand whats really happening under the hood.

Ask any of them if they can tell you what processor or logic controls the ecu uses behind the scene to read off fuel map or how people lock ecu's so that open source readers can't download code and you'll quickly sort out the people who know what they are really talking about.

Most people at the moment are just loading up software, touching a few numbers and then yielding a result.

At the end of the day its the "team" behind the workshop name that makes things happen. I applaud the Ecutek model for making "tuning" easy for mechanics however its a "team" of engineers behind the scenes figuring out what assembly routine, fuel map, CEL logic or GUI people use to make that part of the job friendly.

That's the REAL cost of the dollars spent.

Ecutek v Verso again...

Personally would not go with garage/import 101, stick with the known Subaru specialist.

PS. Who is tuning now at MMS?

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Chinese Mexican
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

that was insightful...

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JDM version 3 STi RA

Intra obviously knows his PIDs as can be seen from his posts. Well done mate as very few ppl I have encountered in this forum even know anything about them.

Ecutek is OST with obvious support at commercial value while OST like rommraider is free and that is the main difference. Be it Verso or even ecuflash or call them whatever you want, it is OST.

Breaking codes on Denso ecus is what OST is about with factory definitions and beyond.

IMO, if i had a race car, I will be using an ecu based on Volumetric Efficiency which is the real thing. Australians have gone beyond factory ecus and developed ecus in the likes of Motec far more superior than that of factory units, based on actual science.

In layman's terms, if I had a misfire at 4000rpm at 65% throttle, I can use Motec to reach that particular cell exactly and hold it there precisely both on the dyno with actual comfirmation on the screen via the live map trace. But with OST or Ecutek, i will not be able to do that but have to run logs (by doing runs -- in hope of hitting the right load and rpm) and adjust and run logs and adjust and so on and on and on....Ariston. Long story short, OST is hacking and overwriting the factory tune with much less accuracy than a VE based ecu.

I hate to be honest here as we do OST and can also offer Ecutek. But I just want to put all the bullshit to rest.

P/S: of course, when new cars are released and aftermarket economical EDIT: or afforadable PnPs are not available and OST is the only choice... go OST. Also if you want a tune with more power for the street, go OST but if you want accuracy, VE based ecus like Motec, Link, Vi-pec and Autronics are the way to go.

Intra = Verso

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Funny looking German Subaru

Hi Mao,

Ecutek is definitely not OST, i think you need to get the facts straight before you start sprouting something like that!

Ecutek is proprietary software which rightfully should not be used as OST software. The reason why Ecutek back in the day got very unhappy about people using their maps was because someone released definitions from their software without authorization!

Why do you think they lock ecu's , encrypt their binary software files and use difference maps for their bin files?

If you look under the hood, the rom's have extra code to do extra things.. your OST definitions wont reference those areas simply because someone hasn't disassembled the rom back to assembly and figured out how it works.

Hell i almost feel sympathetic towards EcuTek as clearly its not business model worth continuing should people just take the hard R&D they do to ensure cars work as predicted and in a safe manner. How would you feel should something like this happen to you in regards to your STD coil-overs? Not happy right?

I'd hate to say it, but i know a little more then just PID. I hope those many many many man hours on a hot dyno at ASG and pouring over reams of paper and assembly/microprocessor manuals haven't been in vein. Because i'm naturally curious i've added additional assembly to roms for VE on stock ecu's, i've used HC16 BDM interfaces and a few other antics i really shouldn't talk about.

Before sprouting something like this.. think beforehand and get your facts straight.

Its only too easy to be the cheapest in the market.. its only too easy to blame the internet for someone cocking up the definition and then ruining a perfectly good block.

My advice.. spend the time verifying the definitions before experimenting on customers cars.

As people say... you play.. you pay!

ECUtek is open source tuning with their own definitions. Call it licensed software or whatever, it doesnt matter to me.

I quite understand your efforts with regards to Verso and applaud you for it, but don't take ot the wrong way. I just want (i know you know it is too hard) the general public to understand the differences.

FYI, Denso Ecus are not based on VEs -- get it straight. You cannot do real time tuning on OST, which leads me back to basics, what is ROM -- Read Only Memory.

In terms of you saying 'experimenting with customers cars', I am just a qualified engineer form Curtin University and Warick is just a tuner trained by Motec, worked with V8 supercars and who has worked for various companies in the R+D dept including Sprintex superchargers. TMR and Pertronas race team overseas as well as in the USA.

Facts are generally better that hearsay. I would like to hear more of the story that that one liner.

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Huge range of extinguisher brackets for cars!

http://kap.industries/

Hi Mao,

Standard ECU roms dont do VE out of the box, they do AFM.

If you want to do VE, you need to alter the ROM (which is loaded to flash).

Standard ROM's dont do launch control either yet why was i able to get it working over two years ago?

Denso ECU's can do VE simply because someone's gone to the effort to make it do so (by re-writing new routines in assembly), if you can't then you're stuck on AFM.

Ecutek offer "RACEROM" which is a VE based alternative on stock ecu.. again please get facts straight.

ROM means "READ ONLY MEMORY", you are correct on that. However what you download from the ECU in fact is FLASH.. if it were true ROM you would not be able to write back to the ECU as its been stored there perminately.

Technically you are reading FLASH and writing values into FLASH. Once the ECU starts up from its reset vector it runs its main bootstrap and starts using those values in FLASH.

I'm sure you're a smart cookie also, however going as far as saying EcuTek is open source is incorrect. EcuTek (David Powers) started this whole journey, they started with MY99 development, if its indeed the same thing why is it not possible for OTS support for these models?

EcuTek has very close ties to the manufacturers and i bet a hell of alot of engineers working close to the microprocessor board (i know this since i have one of the development ECU emulators). Have you noticed that EcuTek are able to write to the TPU memory blocks and yet OTS only allows writes only to FLASH banks?

I think were getting off the beaten track in this thread.. if you want proper answers to your questions then please give me call.

Intra: Was nice chatting to ya on the phone. I wish you and Sean well.
Edit: Real time tuning on an ecu say a Motec or even a Vipec is still far more accurate and superior and I am sure you, Mr Smart Cookie will agree. Happy new year.

Rob 83: not even close.