ECU re-flash and workshops
 

I have noted with a degree of amusement comments about ECU re-flashes on this forum...particularly with respect to Verso and the observation by some how this site is becoming Verso-centric.

I remember some years ago when ECUTek was released, every time it was mentioned on this forum it was bagged by a majority of people, including some who now talk up Verso....interesting. What does it all mean...vested interests?...fashion?...mates club? Whilst there is no question that Verso is cheaper than ECUTek, most previous criticism of re-flashes was that they didn't offer the tuning ability of some replacement ECU's and that you are only paying for software not something physical. I think that history has now shown that re-flashed cars (and I'm talking ECUTek since it is the one with history) have been reliable and have performed well in motorsport (Jamie Lister, Danny Cerro).

It also amuses me that (particularly in the past) whenever I dared mention Maximum Motorsport, certain people on this forum were very quick to accuse me on unashamed marketing...funny how nobody does the same with people mentioning All Star Garage over and over again....vested interests?...fashion?...mates club?

It is important in a forum like this that sensible advice can be given, free speech not be gagged and that vested interests are carefully monitored by moderators.

Just food for thought...

Haven't we been over this 10 times already?

So the point of your thread is you have ECUtek and like MMS and wonder why other people are batting a product with more features for half the money and a very good workshop?

Btw, quit with the ECUtek has history and has motorsport history. No shit! If a product had been around as long as ECUtek without that history, you would be seriously worried. The Verso product is still quite new and thus hasn't had time to prove itself on the track. I do know a lot of people who have Verso and have done extremely well in recorded competitions so far. Expect some results from me in the Autotest this year also. I expect to come last, but I'll be there to have some fun :D

Disclaimer: I have Verso, it was done by ASG/Verso, I use RMS. I know the Verso boys quite well too. I also think MMS and RT are good workshops from the results posted on this forum. I also think ECUtek is a good product, but do not like spending $2k on it when something like Autronic is not much more.

Edit: Forgot to mention good results from Tenagah too. :D

Probably because back in the day, several cars got toasted after copping ecutek reflashes, and before you say thats a load of rubbish, i saw a number of these cars, first hand with my very eyes, so its not rubbish..

also probably because ecutek was, and still is a rip off of a product for what you get, compared to being able to buy a replacement ecu for the same or less money, eg a power fc..

and the main one, probably because ecutek stage 1 and 2, is only a reflash, nothing else, they don't sit down and tune the ecu for you, unless you fork out even MORE money for a tek3, and i have big issues with people just slapping a reflash on as not every car is identical, they are all different, and different mods, cause different characteristics, thus rendering a straight out reflash without a tune pointless..

it smacks of the power chip days when martin donnon raped dumb people for eeproms that did more harm than good

[QUOTE=Kato]So the point of your thread is you have ECUtek and like MMS and wonder why other people are batting a product with more features for half the money and a very good workshop? :D[/QUOTE]

I rest my case....

[QUOTE=Denver]Probably because back in the day, several cars got toasted after copping ecutek reflashes, and before you say thats a load of rubbish, i saw a number of these cars, first hand with my very eyes, so its not rubbish..
[/QUOTE]

Not arguing with that Denver...but we both know that it's a function of the degree of tune and not the product per se

Also no question that there are products at all price tiers (we all have choices and that's great)... but that was not the point of the thread, just as it was not the point to talk up ECUTek or MMS...(though another reply fell straight into that old trap). It was just a comment about perceptions on a forum...

How easy it is to raise people's ire!

forgive my ignorance, and yes i have done a quick search and am not much the wiser, but is verso a company/brand/type of tune? P.S I was looking at getting TEK3 @ RT but if I can get similar for less $................

phizzle,

check out [url]www.versoautomotive.com[/url]

Verso is another type of ECU reflash available for your car.

cheerz :) damn no FAQ section. Back to searching the forum!

nauli, I think you need to grow up.

Yes a lot of people are batting Verso at the moment, as one recent thread was over run by comments on it. I personally don't like it when a thread goes well off topic, as per my post in that thread. But hey, its a new and exciting product so people talk about it. Whoopdeedoo.

I don't see any more ASG comments than RMS and RT comments at the moment.

I also see a lot of autronic, motec and ecutek references.

Are you just wanting someone to say sorry because you kept referencing MMS, ECUtek and people who run ECUtek?

Your replies of "I rest my case...." and "(though another reply fell straight into that old trap)" make no sense to your initial post, as all it seems you want to do is flame verso and all star garage and prop up MMS and ecutek in the same post.

I say fuck it, lets all get motecs, hold hands and sing kumbaya.

I think its pretty silly to place a drivers success in motorsport down to just an ecu anyhow.....

Anyhoo, Im not aligned with anyone really, I come from the school of I dont give a shit and ill say what I think when I think. Here goes :

I believe Verso is a really good product, which shits on ecutek in terms of value for money. Its still new and developing, and will most likely become even better in the future. As for workshops, I've known Sean Keating way before speedworks and ASG, and I know he know his shit in relation to Subi's. Ive never walked into RMS/MMS so dont know or care about that they can and cant do.

You never know, in 3 months time there may be a verso like product at another tuner for 200 bucks less, im sure people would talk about it!

However, there is a massive bandwagon element in here atm. Not that im bagging that out. Verso is run by people on there forums who are respected and liked, and they are friends with people on here who are respected and liked. They post alot on here, and its easy to see how it happens. Like i said not a bad thing and most likely not intentional. As per my suggestion in the ideas forum, perhaps we need to push it into a dedicated corner to keep the forums a little cleaner.

tj

[QUOTE=Red_MY04]Haven't we been over this 10 times already?[/QUOTE]

oh noes! now youve reset my ECU.



in all seriousness, it looks to me like the market is changing, if more people would offer their experiences with MMS/RT with ecutek tuning, then i'm sure ecutek could become flavour of the month again.

till then, i'll stick with my motec pryde :)

[QUOTE=teejay]I think its pretty silly to place a drivers success in motorsport down to just an ecu anyhow.....

Anyhoo, Im not aligned with anyone really, I come from the school of I dont give a shit and ill say what I think when I think. Here goes :

I believe Verso is a really good product, which shits on ecutek in terms of value for money. Its still new and developing, and will most likely become even better in the future. As for workshops, I've known Sean Keating way before speedworks and ASG, and I know he know his shit in relation to Subi's. Ive never walked into RMS/MMS so dont know or care about that they can and cant do.

You never know, in 3 months time there may be a verso like product at another tuner for 200 bucks less, im sure people would talk about it!

However, there is a massive bandwagon element in here atm. Not that im bagging that out. Verso is run by people on there forums who are respected and liked, and they are friends with people on here who are respected and liked. They post alot on here, and its easy to see how it happens. Like i said not a bad thing and most likely not intentional. As per my suggestion in the ideas forum, perhaps we need to push it into a dedicated corner to keep the forums a little cleaner.

tj[/QUOTE]

Very fair comments....

I think Verso is fine and offers another very good alternative. A dedicated info thread is a good idea.

The whole point of this thread was to highlight the issue of vested interests and really has nothing to do with being "liked" or not...I personally think that Sean and Nick are good blokes and are very competent.

The reference to motorsport is merely an example to point out that re-flash tunes (whether they be Verso or ECUTek) are reliable when the car is used in anger and are also competitive...but of course success is mainly down to driving ability, but engine tune and suspension setup certainly help.

At least I have provoked some lively discussion.

Thats true :)

And yeah I can have genuinely intellegent posts, im not always a rude moron !

Give up Steve - I think I raised this issue months ago.

The clear fact remains that this place is infected with conflicting interests and views.

[QUOTE=nauli]I have noted with a degree of amusement comments about ECU re-flashes on this forum...particularly with respect to Verso and the observation by some how this site is becoming Verso-centric.

I remember some years ago when ECUTek was released, every time it was mentioned on this forum it was bagged by a majority of people, including some who now talk up Verso....interesting. What does it all mean...vested interests?...fashion?...mates club? Whilst there is no question that Verso is cheaper than ECUTek, most previous criticism of re-flashes was that they didn't offer the tuning ability of some replacement ECU's and that you are only paying for software not something physical. I think that history has now shown that re-flashed cars (and I'm talking ECUTek since it is the one with history) have been reliable and have performed well in motorsport (Jamie Lister, Danny Cerro).

It also amuses me that (particularly in the past) whenever I dared mention Maximum Motorsport, certain people on this forum were very quick to accuse me on unashamed marketing...funny how nobody does the same with people mentioning All Star Garage over and over again....vested interests?...fashion?...mates club?

It is important in a forum like this that sensible advice can be given, free speech not be gagged and that vested interests are carefully monitored by moderators.

Just food for thought...[/QUOTE]

Everything you say there is pretty much correct Steve...

However, I just put up with it, it's the internet and people will say what they want, fuck it, I'm going to have a go...

I go to Racetorque, often you can't get you car done when you want (busy for months) can't speak to the tuner/head mechanics (overseas, busy) and end up getting told wrong information on the status of your car from time to time, they are not cheap...

but, I push my car and it runs well. When you do get the oppourtunity to speak with the tuners/head mechanics you quickly realise they know what they are talking about, are honest with regards to what you need and don't....and really, their core business is not modding street cars.

:D

[QUOTE=Kato]
I say fuck it, lets all get motecs, hold hands and sing kumbaya.[/QUOTE]

Yeah!!! :offtheair

[QUOTE=nauli]Very fair comments....

I think Verso is fine and offers another very good alternative. A dedicated info thread is a good idea.

The whole point of this thread was to highlight the issue of vested interests and really has nothing to do with being "liked" or not...I personally think that Sean and Nick are good blokes and are very competent.

The reference to motorsport is merely an example to point out that re-flash tunes (whether they be Verso or ECUTek) are reliable when the car is used in anger and are also competitive...but of course success is mainly down to driving ability, but engine tune and suspension setup certainly help.

At least I have provoked some lively discussion.[/QUOTE]

Indeed you have! Nothing like a good ole internet cripple fight in the morning :D

I do agree with you that any re-flash tune (ecutek/verso/whatever) can provide a very competitive car in motor sport applications. (I had always assumed by the way it was written that you were propping up ecutek only with this reference).

As for disclosure, well I see your point, but where do we start and where do we stop? If you are promoting a product or service you offer, then yes you should disclose you are an owner/employee of that company at the time. If you are just a forum user who likes a product then you should have nothing to disclose.

This isn't a Verso related issue either, as a lot of forum users plug their companies on here.

Disclosure: I like BP Ultimate. The more you all use it, the more the plant breaks down and the more parts I can send down to BP :D

Love these threads!

I run EcuTek and love it! Although had I had the option of Verso I would have seriously looked at it, but being a new product that handles the most important part of your car I am not sure what I would have chosen regardless of the saving.

I would love to compare the 2 and see what difference there is between the 2 tunes and would be willing now to do that in the near future, as after a year if it had major issues you would have heard about them by now.

I really could not give a shit if people are biased to certain workshops or products, not sure why this is a huge issue. It is a forum, of course there a going to be people who are friends with certain workshops and tuners. Part of being on a forum?

It is up to the individual to make his or her decision at the end of the day.

I can see where you coming from though mate. You get burnt when talking about MMS or EcuTek but everyone else can promote their mates product?

[QUOTE=nauli]Not arguing with that Denver...but we both know that it's a function of the degree of tune and not the product per se
[/QUOTE]
This is where i disagree, as that, if ecutek just did full tunes, instead of tek 1 and 2 being a pre programmed map and then tek 3 being a propper tune, there would not have been that many failures, because the tunes would have been car specific, not a random generated "we think this will work" tune, which is just utterly retarded, see previous comment about martin donnon and dumb people..

seeing a pattern here yet?..

how is ecutek different to verso.. there both programs that hack into the OEM computer, thus utilizing what points the standard ecu has to offer.

I dont understand how u can say one is better than the other in terms of functionality. Or that its been proven in motorsport. Of course the OEM ecu works fine under any condition, thats why it was put into cars in the first place.

It all comes down to the tuner, to extract the most out of the ecu.

I agree with what Denver is saying there...

EcuTek and Verso are essentially the same product, when you go for the Tek3... but how many people will fork out $2k+ for Tek3??

Most people who want a reflash tune have only minimal mods and want something to help make the most of the modifications in the way of a new tune...
In this situation EcuTek will advise you to go for a Tek 2 tune(most often)...
This is a generic tune that they load into your ECU and road test it to see how it performs... What a joke!!!???

For more than $500 less (2/3rds of the price) than a Tek2 tune, Verso will do a custom DYNO tune of your ECU using all equipment to make sure your car is not put under undue stress and that the tune is optimal for the way the car is set up...

Im sorry, but there is no way i will load a tune onto my ECU and drive it when there is no real way of checking that things are all running safely! Especially when for less money i can have everything done "properly"...

My 2c

I don't know how many people have paid $2K plus for a custom ecutek tune? Mine cost $1500 1st time, then hourly rate when i went back for retuning with a new turbo.

I agree - generic map tuning is crap.

The only difference between custom tuning Verso & custom tuning ecutek is the price - Verso wins.

Apart from that it's up to the tuner/workshop.

One of the criticisms of ecutek early on was that you were locked into the dealer network, couldn't tune it yourself, couldn't tune in realtime on the road, etc, etc - all these criticisms have been forgotten with the current Verso pryde.

Let's not forget that with Verso you are locked into 1 tuner/workshop - you are fucked if you have a problem with them and/or don't like the results, have a falling out, or if they get really busy or they decide to jack up the cost of tuning, etc to cover their expenses, etc, or they get sick or injured or go on holidays, etc, etc. Then what will you do? The honeymoon period will end eventually - always does.

Girls you're all out of the loop, the latest craze is draw-thru carby's and polished inlet pipes!!!!! All you need is a screw driver to tune :D

[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e1/Corvair_turbo_engine.jpg/800px-Corvair_turbo_engine.jpg[/IMG]

The reason why I would go for a verso is because after checking each of ecutek and verso's web pages, verso is the only one that does MY94-95, and it's cheaper... win-win!

Whats wrong with LINKS ECU??

Anything bad about them cause im getting one very soon!

Ok a link is not a reflash... perhaps a new thread is a good idea.

[QUOTE=BLUES]
Let's not forget that with Verso you are locked into 1 tuner/workshop - you are fucked if you have a problem with them and/or don't like the results, have a falling out, or if they get really busy or they decide to jack up the cost of tuning, etc to cover their expenses, etc, or they get sick or injured or go on holidays, etc, etc. Then what will you do? The honeymoon period will end eventually - always does.[/QUOTE]

A very valid point....

Not saying it will happen, but if you go link, power fc, motec, autronic, etc etc, ... you have more then one tuning option.

The other small 'issue' i have is that Verso is just a name - have a detailed look at their website - no contact details, no contact names, no ABN or ACN - I mean, are they actually a registered business or merely a DOT.COM webpage?

What happens if they decide to cash in their chips and move onto other things & projects or go there separate ways - what support is there to existing customers and to the boys at ASG if the tech gurus decide to pull the pin on product support & R&D?

There is more to think about than just the $ difference between reflashing products.

Or the flipside, what if something happens to ASG?

Ive been looking at the two for a while now, can anyone tell me does verso come with any warranty?? What happens if it frys your ecu??

My understanding as far as ECUTEK goes is every tuner has their own base maps as a starting point from their own past tunes. ( I would guess VERSO is the same).

In other words MMS & Race Torque re-flashes are differant it is not that a TEK 2 from each is the same. Once you do a full custom tune it is entirley up to the guy tuning the car.

ECUTEC & VERSO are only the software that lets the tuner make the changes.

My take on it is that the results are entirely dependent on the tuner. So pick your Tuner and who gives a rats what software they use.

[QUOTE=teejay]Ok a link is not a reflash... perhaps a new thread is a good idea.[/QUOTE]

sorry TJ you're only allowed to suggest one sticky per day and you're over quota :P

[QUOTE=MSR]My understanding as far as ECUTEK goes is every tuner has their own base maps as a starting point from their own past tunes. ( I would guess VERSO is the same).[/QUOTE]
No, this is not the case, a Verso tune is a tune just like a MoTeC, Autronic or Link. No ghost tunes here.

[QUOTE=MSR]My take on it is that the results are entirely dependent on the tuner. So pick your Tuner and who gives a rats what software they use.[/QUOTE]Have you ever heard the phrase, "A tradesman is only as good as his tools"?

[QUOTE=dougiefresh]Ive been looking at the two for a while now, can anyone tell me does verso come with any warranty?? What happens if it frys your ecu??[/QUOTE]


sprinkle salt & vinegar, wrap it up in newspaper done deal... however, i dont think there is warranty for such a thing.. if its ever happened?? :confused:

[QUOTE=Josh]No ghost tunes here.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean by 'ghost tunes?'

cut and paste tunes from other cars.

[QUOTE=muggz]sprinkle salt & vinegar, wrap it up in newspaper done deal... however, i dont think there is warranty for such a thing.. if its ever happened?? :confused:[/QUOTE]

I believe theres been at least one car with its ECU fried due to an attempt to reflash in the very recent past

No names of ecu or workshop - its not about the negative, just pointing out this can and will happen.

[QUOTE=Josh]No, this is not the case, a Verso tune is a tune just like a MoTeC, Autronic or Link. [B]No ghost tunes here[/B].[/QUOTE]

I call bullshit - I bet all Verso base maps were derived from Ecutek Maps to start with - some may even say they were stolen.

[IMG]http://members.westnet.com.au/fred.ferrante/Intra.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=BLUES]I call bullshit - I bet all Verso base maps were derived from Ecutek Maps to start with - some may even say they were stolen.

[IMG]http://members.westnet.com.au/fred.ferrante/Intra.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

So simply because Pete wanted to look at a tune you think it was stolen? Get your hand off it.

Not everything is as sinister as it seems to you Fred.