[QUOTE=Kremer930;704753]Would a bar and plate possibly offer better flow resistance and faster spool times etc? I am likely to change mine so may get a before and after dyno run. Although mapping changes post fitment may hide some of the impact of TMIC changeover.[/QUOTE]

Bar and plate is like cheap china versus your tube and fin factory unit.

Go ahead and change it over, but stock for stock you will have bugger all gains (maybe losses with heat soak) and be $1k out of pocket.

Pointless. Put the $1000 towards something that will make a difference (whether power or handling).

[QUOTE=Kremer930;704753]Would a bar and plate possibly offer better flow resistance and faster spool times etc? I am likely to change mine so may get a before and after dyno run. Although mapping changes post fitment may hide some of the impact of TMIC changeover.[/QUOTE]

If you want faster spool, put the $1000 towards EL headers and get them ceramic coated inside and out.

This is going to be an interesting one. At $400 I am willing to take the gamble. Let the dyno show if full torque is bought in lower down the revs.

As for equal length headers. If I wanted a boring sound...I would have bought an Evo!!! :-)

A $400 TMIC sounds like a China shitter to me.

[QUOTE=BALISTC;704952]A $400 TMIC sounds like a China shitter to me.[/QUOTE]

Push start button took priority

The end tanks are made in China and the rest is assembled and coated in the US.

My main outstanding issue is around clearance for the whiteline strut brace. It looks like it would be tight.

Check out some pics of one fitted here but without a brace.

[url=http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2375713]Torx Racing Top Mount Intercooler Kits 2008-2012 WRX & 2008-2012 STI - NASIOC[/url]

I should also add...that I would be surprised if Process West end tanks were made in Australia.

Enjoy your shitter cooler.

If any improvements are made it will be via tuning and not due to the massive heat sink you are sticking on top of your engine.

yes, post dyno results please. amusement sustains me!

Amusing is how this intercooler is 55mm thinner than the STI unit. But a lot fatter to absorb all that heat in the bars.

It would be a good exercise to flow test both units and get flow rates and pressure drops for comparison.

Looking at the pics of the unit compared to the stock TMIC there is no way it is thinner. Looks twice as thick in the core. I dont think that it will allow enough clearance for a strut brace though and my preference is handling over the cooler.

[QUOTE=Kremer930;705008]Looking at the pics of the unit compared to the stock TMIC there is no way it is thinner. Looks twice as thick in the core. I dont think that it will allow enough clearance for a strut brace though and my preference is handling over the cooler.[/QUOTE]

Thinner in width, not depth.

Depth wise it is 37mm thicker.

Volume wise STI is 8L, Torx is 11L so theoretically there is some more volume. But it will come down to construction, heat soak, flow rate, pressure drop and the efficiency difference of bar and plate versus tube and fin.

There is probably 5hp difference between all the TMIC units out there for an 08+ STI.

Kato, something tells me you're going to get a sore forehead.

Nah, its quite amusing/interesting.

I would also like to see a 08 STI TMIC bench tested locally so we can have some real data. It would also be good to see a back to back run of 08 TMIC vs China TMIC with no tune adjustments to see what the 'gains' are. If someone is willing to pay for the testing, why not get the data?!

I think I spent too many years studying thermodynamics as this stuff interests me!

Hey Trolley...feel free to contribute something positive at any time..... :-)

Thanks Kato. I know that it doesnt seem that probably that there is much benefit to the change either but I at least want to consider and explore the idea before writing it off. If I knew that the strut brace would still fit then I would give it a go and run the base line pull with both before tuning for the new one. I expect that the strut brace wont clear though and handling is going to take priority over power.

I must admit that my old GC8 never gave the feeling of heat soak power drop after standstill to the same level that the GRB does.

And for the record...I have owned a WRX since 2000. I am not a newbie.

[QUOTE=Kremer930;705136]Hey Trolley...feel free to contribute something positive at any time..... :-)[/QUOTE]

I have done and so have many others, but you seem hell bent on ignoring advice on a few issues. Rather than ask questions and then ignore people's advice, why don't you just update your driveway thread with [I]"I'm doing this, this and this to my car (and fuck you if you don't like it) - will keep you all updated with the results".[/I]

I dont ignore the advice. I just make sure that the advice that I get is accurate and considerate of my goals before I adopt it.

I am always open to helpful advice. It is why I am a member of PerthWRX to begin with.

[QUOTE=Kremer930;704974]I should also add...that I would be surprised if Process West end tanks were made in Australia.[/QUOTE]


Shoot Kev an email and find out for yourself.

[QUOTE=Luigi;342090]Not the Best pic, But its a Idea of the scoop widths of the MY09 WRX Sedan vs a MY07 STI.

[URL="http://img16.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc0151j.jpg"][IMG]http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4624/dsc0151j.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE]

A beauty competition between Thelma and Selma from the Simpsons . . .

[QUOTE=Riggs;705154]Shoot Kev an email and find out for yourself.[/QUOTE]

Kev would still be claiming to be finding the time to prove the results he promised 6 years ago!

I wonder if this has been fitted to a MY99 / MY00 ?
Torx Racing Top Mount Intercooler Kits 2008-2012 WRX & 2008-2012 STI - NASIOC

[QUOTE=tuna;705209]Kev would still be claiming to be finding the time to prove the results he promised 6 years ago![/QUOTE]

I'm with you on the PW stuff, the TMIC on my V6 is like a big heater core, after a few runs it gets so hot.

I also had one on my Spec C, I took it off and put the original intercooler back on due to same issue.

Do the Math ;)

I can understand that when sitting stationary that the larger mass once heated up will then take longer to dissipate that heat but if you were moving and hence the , hopefully, more efficient bar and plate design was actively cooling, would it then be less prone to heat soak then the stock unit?

It is scarey that you had the PW unit and decided to take it off.

I can understand that for quarter mile runs that the big units would heat soak before the line but did you also have the same problems on track days?

Where are you getting this information that bar and plate is more efficient?

Tube and fin > Bar and plate. No question about it.

If only I could buy a tube & fin V-mount.

[QUOTE=STI325V6;705785]I'm with you on the PW stuff, the TMIC on my V6 is like a big heater core, after a few runs it gets so hot.

I also had one on my Spec C, I took it off and put the original intercooler back on due to same issue.

Do the Math ;)[/QUOTE]

I have a large hyperflow IC, and not found this. Yes I did find the temp started high and then rose again when i parked, but during a run it cooled quite nicely, and not by using the intercooler water sprayer. I still have the manual push button and I'm usually to busy to use it.

The temps I'm looking at is the inlet temps recorded on my datalogger and not touching the ic after a run. I haven't compared this to a standard ic.

[QUOTE=Kato;705859]Where are you getting this information that bar and plate is more efficient?[/QUOTE]

Does tube and fin have higher efficiency? I had always heard that the higher flow and lower resistance of the bar and plate worked out to improved cooling.

I think it comes down to positioning and usage for intercoolers. Consider a stop/start use where the intercooler is above a large hot object. The IC may get air flowing accross it only when moving. In this case you would want something that rapidly changes temp, to make the most of the moving periods and cool quickly as it would be hot.

Consider an intercooler that is fixed in front of a large hot object, the IC may have a fan constantly blowing air across it that never stops. This IC would get cool and stay cool. You would want it to "not" respond rapidly to temperture changes maybe.

I think the internal aerodynamics of the two designs could be made equal. Comes down to build and design quality. But the efficiency would depend on usage and the definition of efficiency.

Think of an intercooler in a subaru, TMIC or landcruiser V8 TMIC compared to a FMIC in front of a fixed turbo-diesel generator.

tube and fin is the most efficent for performance, bar and plate is the most effiecent for your wallet.

tube and fin's tempurature drop and increased air density outweighs the volumetric flow of a bar and plate that doesnt cool the air sufficently all of the time.

[url=http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/air-properties-d_156.html]Air Properties[/url]

no question though, first few runs on a dyno will yeild better results on a bar and plate.
20 power runs later it is a different story.

Thanks guys. Some interesting stuff. So next question would be...how much added lag would you get with a FMIC assuming a similar sized snail to stock?

[QUOTE=Kremer930;706040]Thanks guys. Some interesting stuff. So next question would be...[B]how much added lag would you get with a FMIC assuming a similar sized snail to stock?[/B][/QUOTE]

PLEASE, I am pleading with you, don't start this argument again!

Hahah, it will be a 3+ day war over FMIC vs TMIC and the ONLY thing we will find out is that the FMIC team love the extra top end punch.... and the TMIC team love the punch out of corners.

[SIZE=1]***Search is your friend***[/SIZE]

Yep. I here you!

[QUOTE='Dan [WRX CS Evo 7];706132']PLEASE, I am pleading with you, don't start this argument again!

Hahah, it will be a 3+ day war over FMIC vs TMIC and the ONLY thing we will find out is that the FMIC team love the extra top end punch.... and the TMIC team love the punch out of corners.

[SIZE=1]***Search is your friend***[/SIZE][/QUOTE]


You forgot the 3rd group or category, the v mount

[QUOTE=pmh;706136]You forgot the 3rd group or category, the v mount[/QUOTE]

FMIC vs TMIC vs VMIC?

This war will last forever!! It all depends of who can swing the VMIC team onto their side of the argument...

WRC team, end of discussion

[url=http://www.processwest.com.au/index.php/products/subaru/wrx-sti-g3/my08-12-sti-front-mount-intercooler-kit]MY08-12 STi Front Mount Intercooler Kit - Process West[/url]

$1650.00

[QUOTE=huggy_b;704670]I know of at least 2 in Australia that have leaked at the pressed seams - boost in the low 20's.[/QUOTE]

those guys sucked a mean cock and/or you're full of shit. Pushed 1.9 bar (~27.5psi) though mine, no wukkas

not as high at 2 bar but mine is 1.6bar since driving my STI out of the showroom in 2005, touch wood no problems with my stock oem STI TMIC

Did somebody say FMIC vs TMIC??


I've had everything, top mount water cooled in my legacy, top mount air cooled on my 99GF8 and Stock TMIC on my old GD 2001 WRX.

Now with a GD 2001 WRX again I'm running a FMIC, the car came with it and it makes a HUGE difference.

Pros and Cons:

+1 : FMIC doesnt suffer the same heat soak as a TMIC. True, I haven't noticed any drop in power even after driving it for 2hr+

+1 : I personally noticed a gain in power at higher rpm and it feels like the power keeps going for longer "ideal for drag strips or if you feel like breaking a land speed record, your neck and your car"

+1 : It looks good? Ok fair enough it might look mean but at what cost? It sticks out FFS.. Do you really want that extra attention from the police?

- 5 : It adds lag. It sure as hell does, if you drive to work on one road and it's dead straight then fine a FMIC is perfect for you. When I say adds lag, my other GD with stock TMIC had power from ~ 3200rpm with CAI and 3" exhaust. Same setup with FMIC and your looking at a "gain" in lag in my case almost upto 4000rpm before the same performance if not a slight bit more but as I said its late and not when you want it!

Stick with TMIC.