1. What do you believe of Mr Carpenter's proposition to limit the type of cars that P-platers can drive? Why?
Fair enough, but let's not kid ourselves, the guy has probably only had a handful of decent thoughts in his whole life. His think tank group however have seized this oppourtunity to look like the government is on top of the 'apparent' P-plate hoon epidemic. Diverts a lot of attention away from the Health/Water/Gas/Public Transport crisis' and Government cover ups doesn't it.
2. Do you think it could help curb the deaths of p-platers on WA roads?
In no way what-so-ever will it help. Forcing restrictions will only promote irresponsible activity in the very same type of person that are labeled 'hoons' anyway.

3. How do you respond to calls from the public that p-platers in high-powered cars are irresponsible?
Drivers in all cars, from all walks of life, from all religions, from all ethnicities, from all areas of the whole planet CAN be irresponsible. I see more non P-plate drivers talking on the phone while driving or speeding or cutting people off or following too closely or generally racing other cars just to be first at the red light or to get home 2 minutes quicker.

4. What alternatives do you believe would be a better practical measure to curb deaths on WA roads?
- Start clearing trees and power poles further away from the hard shoulders of roads. There needs to be more run off space.
- Reducing speed limits en masse will only mean people will spend more time in their cars driving which will increase fatigue and therefore crash rates. This also promotes speeding to make up time. Let's not forget whose fault urban sprawl is!!!
- Start having yearly inspections of ALL cars, motorbikes, trucks and buses made compulsory such as in NZ. The number of taxis and other cars I see on the road with a) no brake lights whatsoever b) one working headlight c) bald tyres is staggering! That doesn't mean it should be taken as an excuse to start hammering modified car owners as almost all of them are modified by qualified, MTA approved mechanics/trades people and in general are far better maintained then your average Joe's family wagon.
- Driver training, driver training, driver training. I cannot stress this enough!!! In order to learn how to control a car, first you must lose control. We have the facilities already with AHG Training Centre and Barbagello, there is no reason why others cannot be built to accomodate requirements. Let's start making these emergency skills part of the process of getting a licence. It is far too easy to get a licence these days. My P-plate test took 7 minutes in 1998!!!! I was taught how to reverse around a corner (illegal), parallel park and do a 3 point turn. NOT ESSENTIAL SKILLS FOR OPERATING A 1 to 2 TON MOTOR VEHICLE. Also teach people properly about maintaining safe distances from other traffic.
- Increase MARKED police presence on the roads. Having more undercover officers on patrol only increases government revenue. Nothing like seeing a Police car every 10 minutes. You KNOW they will catch you if you spped and generally be a dick. Soon it becomes habit.
- Start making more of an effort to enforce fines on tail gaters, 'Traffic light Grand Prix Warriors' and the like. Just because they aren't doing skids, doesn't mean they aren't the cause of most accidents out there.

There are plenty more gripes I have. Should you want me to start making these into policy to be adopted by the State of WA you can contact me and i will give you details of where to deposit the money for actually TRYING to make a difference instead of riding public opinion and offering knee jerk reactions and band aid solutions. I'd be more than happy.

Cheers Phil

P.S I <3 cars

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No more GC8, sad face.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

1. What do you believe of Mr Carpenter's proposition to limit the type of cars that P-platers can drive? Why?

Limiting the types of cars is a good place to start. Car choices should be based on power/weight ratio, age and drive type.
eg:
no cars over a certain power:weight
no cars older than 19xx, or no cars without certain safety standards, such as ESC.
no RWD cars

As well as the power:weight ratio, there should be a max power AND max weight, checked individually. Heavier cars are harder to regain control of in an incident and require better braking systems.

2. Do you think it could help curb the deaths of p-platers on WA roads?

"Rate of occurrence" x "the impact of the event" = "Risk"

Yes. A lot of P platers will have an 'incident' regardless of what car they are in. Its whether they (and anyone else involved) has the chance to live and learn from their mistakes. There is a much higher chance of surviving an incident in a newer, lower powered, fwd (front wheel drive) vehicle. There is also less likely the incident will occur in the first place.

3. How do you respond to calls from the public that p-platers in high-powered cars are irresponsible?

I think all drivers are irresponsible. Its amazing how many of these 'public' drivers have no idea of traffic flow, courteous driving, keeping left, how to use a roundabout, understanding what is happening around them (ie driving at 10km/h below the limit in the right hand lane, exactly the same speed as the person next to them). I think they are more dangerous than young drivers in high powered cars.

4. What alternatives do you believe would be a better practical measure to curb deaths on WA roads?

They need more stringent rules in regards to the age of cars registered in Australia (with licensed exceptions for special interest vehicles), Mandatory ESC, Airbags, ABS, annual inspection of ALL vehicles, Special licenses for RWD/Turbo/SC cars and for 4WDs. Mandatory advanced driver training for everyone. Increased rego costs for 4WD. Illegal for Trucks to utilise the right most lane on highways/freeways.

Also licenses should be much harder to get, but good luck, since the people teaching have not a bloody clue what safe driving is about. They also need to increase speed limits on highways so people dont feel the need to rush in built up areas, and build better public transport to reduce the number of plebs on the road.

Theres SFA trains late at night, I would prefer to pay more tax to get them home cheap on a train than have them risk drink driving. Drink drivers are less demonised than 'hoons'. Which is abosultely disgraceful. Also "hoon" is a discriminatory word They should be called anti-social driving laws.

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[S]kid[S]

Good discussion on the topic guys, keep it up. be good to hear from some of our younger members too. I agree with most of the points here and I've been saying it for years: nothing makes you slow down more than seeing a marked cop car in your mirror

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MY93 Impreza GX 1.8L, 0hp, 0nm

None of this restriction is going to really work in the end.

I call for compulsory advanced driver training that is subsidised by the government. Put the P-Platers on a private skid pan so they can be taught exactly what to do in the event of loss of control and/or emergency. Once these skills have become second nature and they fully understand the limits of their cars in all sorts of weather conditions, you will see a massive drop in road fatalities in the P-Plater demographic.

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RS Liberty - Because WRX's are only good for parts...

Or driving without a license...

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Balls.

1. What do you believe of Mr Carpenter's proposition to limit the type of cars that P-platers can drive? Why?

I think there are more contributing factors to why p-platers crash and die on roads, besides the car they drive. In theory, i high performance car, such as a WRX comes with the added safety that is associated with it being a high performance car (ie: bigger brakes, aribags etc..) I know for a fact, a 1985 holden camira does not have airbags to save passengers lives. Also, if you give p-platers V8 holdens, or you give p-platers nissan micra's they are still going to race each other. It doesn't take a genius to figure it out, either way, both cars will still eventually get to 100 - 120 kmp/h and i would much rather be in a high performance car with bigger brakes and airbags, than a small little buzz box.

Also, driver education is poor in this state. Maybe make it compulsary to attend defensive driving courses, or something like that?

And what about road design. Western Australian roads are poorly designed, and no ammount of speed camera's or fixed speed camera's are going to solve that..

2. Do you think it could help curb the deaths of p-platers on WA roads?

Its possible it will have an affect, but not a noticable one.

3. How do you respond to calls from the public that p-platers in high-powered cars are irresponsible?

Probably true, again, driver education.

4. What alternatives do you believe would be a better practical measure to curb deaths on WA roads?

Driver education (obviously) Better Road design. Greater police presence

Hi,

Or hitting a tree. Seriously.

Cheers,
Nik

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There are two kinds of failures: those who thought and never did, and those who did and never thought.

Everyones basically said everything i want to say, Im a P plater with 5 months to go left.

I agree strongly, DRIVER TRAINING. learn what happens when you boot it in the wet.. coz if u dont your going to do it in the street and maybe kill someone/ur self.

Are they going to take my WRX off me? =S

Just teach people what can happen and how to react in the event of a fuckup.

My mum said lower speed limits? lol? 110 is fine thanks..

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I'm not a vegetarian im just off chops = ]

or seeing a hot chick needing a hitchhike

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I'm not a vegetarian im just off chops = ]

1. What do you believe of Mr Carpenter's proposition to limit the type of cars that P-platers can drive? Why?
Limiting the type of car is good start, and as someone on here already said, I think to set it up in the same way as motorcycle licences isnt a bad idea. However I would be concerned that this would just move the death toll to a differnt age block because once the Probationary period is over these kids are free to drive a high powered car and will still lack the experience to do so and its for that reason I think better driver training would be more effective.

2. Do you think it could help curb the deaths of p-platers on WA roads?
Absolutley! But I still dont think it would have as much effect as better training would have and making getting a licence harder.

3. How do you respond to calls from the public that p-platers in high-powered cars are irresponsible?
I dont think "irresposible" is the right word because irresponsible driving in high powered cars it is'nt restricted to P platers. When it comes to P plate drivers in high powered cars its more a lack of driving experience combined with the youthful belief they are invincible, the lack of experience is something we can address.

4. What alternatives do you believe would be a better practical measure to curb deaths on WA roads?
Driver training, Driver training and Driver training. We really cant stop kids from being kids so no matter what they are driving they will do silly things I really think the only thing that will make a real difference is giving them the skills that they need to handle themselves when they get into these situations.

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Foxy

Not speeding Officer........Qualifying.