Go and tell that to the family of a dead, innocent victim from a motor vehicle accident...

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[I]trolololol[/I]

There is a diffrence between human beings and a herd of buffalo dude, human beings are not statistics...bet you wouldnt say shit like that if you ever lost a loved one...grow a heart man...

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Aint no stupid like right-wing stupid.....

I think that pin pointing high powered cars is just an easy target. I'd actually like to see the statistics of those killed on the roads and the % of those that are in the alleged high powered catagory. Then how many of those were in a situation where speed and power was actually the contributing factor.

I'd suggest its just a bandaid fix because the public needs a scapegoat. The real answer lies in better driver education and a requirement for a certain level of road awareness.

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MY00 WRX. 89 Prelude. 99 CRV

But it's true what he says. Since time began young males will find a way of killing themselves. Alas , now it also includes females.
I know if you are directly involved, the impact is so much greater, but try saying to a young fellah who has a nice powerfull car and has just done something silly..." Hey man, what are you doing..that could kill you "... You will cop a mouthfull, or the bird or whatever.
Hindsight is a wonderfull thing . We are all guilty of it.

There is no cut and dried solution / answer to the road toll ...best thing you can do is look after yourself and encourage your loved ones to do the same.

Defensive driving and every other bugga on the road is a dill and about to try and kill you.
It works.

Most parents of teenagers I know have the best of intentions. Until they get close to the kid getting P's then the convenience of having another driver in the family overshadows their thinking and they rush their kids through driver training.

It really scares me to think how cheap mid 90s turbo cars are now and the fact so many inexperienced drivers can afford them.

It might be unpopular (and therefore Pollies will never do it) but a multi-level licensing system like the bike licence is really a good solution I think.

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Subaruless

i was sent to a defensive driving course by the juvenile justice team after a crash back in 97. that thought me skills in a few hours i still use to this day. i didnt once think the things i learnt made me more invincible. i think this type of program should be incorporated into getting a licence.

p plate restrictions are a good idea, a power to weight ratio should be introduced, difficult to police or not. its the same with bikes so why not cars.

right on hurtenstein. harsh as it may be, as long as automobiles exist, people will die in them. death prevention is impossible. death minimisation and education is possible.

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trapped in time
surrounded by evil
low on gas

The restrictions will be a big step in the right direction on one hand, will cause other negative repercussions on the other.

The BIGGEST step in the right direction would have to be far more thorough driver training. Everybody complains about Perth's slow road speed limits, and when it comes to the argument of Australian road speed limits people time & time again bring up the example of Germany, it's autobahns and the speeds which are driven on them. So for this argument, i will raise the driver training which is undergone for a person to get their license in Germany. They undergo quite extensive driving theory before even sitting in the drivers seat of a vehicle, this encompasses basic automobile mechanics, vehicle maintenance, the difference in dynamics of driving a RWD, FWD AWD...and so on. You would be amazed at the number of people in Australia that would have no idea if their car was FWD, AWD or RWD, let alone what difference it makes to how they drive, or even how to maintain a vehicle so it is capable of travelling at high speeds safer. Getting, & KEEPING a license in Germany is not anywhere near as simple as it is in Australia.

So should P platers have a power restriction? YES!!! most definitely, until the driver training program, amongst other things, is improved. because at the moment the only way for a P-plate driver to learn the very basics of driving dynamics is through experience on the roads - as a P-plater-, the only way a P-plater learns how their SS Commodore ute handles at it's extremes is to go out on the roads and try it out, generally with no idea in advance of what could possibly happen, however the same maneuver in a low powered vehicle will have a far better chance of being controlled & survived as it would be more difficult to reach dangerous speeds. I am speaking in terms of those that manage to hit light poles in back streets from trying to drift a corner and lose it, or losing control driving at high speeds on moderate limit roads, not so much simply driving as fast as they possibly can down the freeway which is something every P-plater would have tried at one time or another.

On the flipside, i see a problem with drivers that would go out as soon as they're off their P-plates and buying a performance car and still not really having the necessary experience to control the vehicle safely. On this side of the argument all that is going to be achieved is the rate of teenage road deaths will decrease,, with a steady rise in the road toll of those in their early 20's.

I personally have lost quite a few friends to the roads, and this has in turn given me quite a deep respect for cars, the roads and driving in general. Yes i drive a high powered car now, but my first car was a Mitsubishi Lancer GX with a kick arse sound system, then i owned a camper van when i travelled Oz for a year or so, then i owned a FWD EJ22 Subaru Liberty (which gained itself quite a reputation amongst certain circles). I also had quite a lot more experience than most, before i was anywhere near old enough to get my license, when it came to extreme driving as i used to navigate for my dad on rallies and rode shotgun many times during drift practice with mates. Yes at times i have been known to do some things on the roads which may be deemed by some as stupid, but these are calculated risks, which have the appropriate factors taken into consideration beforehand, and one thing i have learned from losing people to the roads is to always drive within my limits on the roads, the track is the place to push those boundaries. When i see young kids at work on P-plates buying Ford XR6 Turbo's, i cringe, because they see me as a young person driving a performance vehicle and naturally they want to do the same, they forget that i am still 5-6 years older, and when i was their age was happy to cruise round with the sub thumping...and i know the only thing i can do is to try and pass on my experiences and urge them to attend driver training courses and even skidpan days at the AHG/RAC track to really learn their car, coz i'm tired of seeing young kids ending up wrapped round a pole because our government couldn't be bothered educating them more thoroughly about what getting behind the wheel of a vehicle really entails.

_daz_

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God gave us feet...so we could work the pedals properly

That wasn't a U-turn! It was two consecutive right hand turns.

^^ well said dude.

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trapped in time
surrounded by evil
low on gas

yeah daz very well said mate.^^^^^

very interesting what you have to say about Germany's driver education system. i know you can not compare german to australia, however i think looking at countries where the death toll on the roads is significantly less then australia can only be beneficial.

One thing i would really like to add here, is that amongst my friends (17-21 yo males living the perth metro area), the idea of power restrictions is HATED.
HOWEVER, the idea of more driver training is very very much wanted and well received. IMO, I dont think that it will drivers a feeling of being invincible, it instills a respect for their vehicle and the roads.

Just in closing on my behalf, I think there is one thing that EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON THIS FORUM can agree on....
Improving driver training, awareness and attitude is not a bad thing, and improving those areas of the Learning system can only be beneficial.
If the upcoming research shows that vehicle restrictions will help this hugely as well, or if they can come up with other measures (as many have been suggested here), then I say why not? Do a trial run for say, 3 years and if the toll drops, impliment the changes, if not - then its obviously not the issue.

tcs....

Well said Daz!

If getting your licence is made much harder, you will appreciate having it more when you finally earn it.

It would prove invaluable to have proper theoretical training and testing for learner drivers...