I'll probably get some stick for this...

But if high powered vehicles are such a menace to society causing all these deaths, why not have a license for them for all drivers (regardless of experience or age)?

I can't ride a big boy bike till I get a license for it. I can't drive different classes for trucks till I get a license for it.

Heck I can't even drive some cars down the quarter mile without a specific license and vehicle checks... Yet I can go to a shop, buy a 11 sec GTR and drive it on a public road with no check of my experience in a car like that.

Look at the upset of the horsepower wars when the GTHO Phase 3 was for sale. Now anyone can wander into a car dealership and buy a much more powerful vehicle, but they only have to pass a silly test and do a 3 point turn or some junk.

Age doesn't always bring experience to the table with some people, and seeing some guys thinking their 500kW Holden/Ford is a supercar with no driving skills is worrying.

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[COLOR="Gray"]550Nm off a 2L... Just wish it was in the dak dak...[/COLOR]

Fair comment...a reasonable idea...

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No Subarus currently owned

Some good grown up discussion here guys!

I have a few thoughts on how to approach this, I'm not a P plater and have not been for quite some time.

1. Driver education. The test itself is a joke. As I understand it you dont even have to do an emergency stop and there is no set list of 'tasks' you need to complete to pass. Its not even a set length of time.
Bin the log book idea, all I see are fresh minds being taught some shocking bad habits by being shown how to drive by their equally inept peers.

2. Maybe the power to weight restrictions work but I feel a bit 'flicted by it. I absolutely can not stand the idea of the government directly removing someones freedom of choice and its grossly unfair on those that have done the right thing in getting themselves some quality training or are mature enough to be trusted with a sportscar.

3. If restricting access is truly the only way to stop the handfull of accidents that are happening then lets do something that will improve things for EVERYONE on the road.
Introduce COMPULSORY 3rd party property & personal insurance that is heavily weighted against new license holders.
The benefits are that young people will be priced out of owning fast cars, they might be able to afford the $20K to buy the car but the other $3K + a year makes it unfeasible.
The chances of having your property damaged by an uninsured driver are hugely reduced. All cars would have to have an 'INSURED' sticker that also has the policy number and insurers phone number.
I believe that having to do this yourself instead of just not bothering will instill a bit of personal responsibility in to people. After having to wait years to be able to afford a flash car your not going to want to risk someone making a claim off of you and putting you back to square one on your insurance.

4. The hardest one to fix is attitudes to driving. Sadly peoples driving style seems to be a reflection of their own personality and general attitudes....over the last couple of years I have noticed a shift in Perth people to generally being obnoxious, rude and selfish so we are really screwed in this respect.

5. The government are not going to do the right thing. They just need to be seen to be making some noise and doing something to satisfy the hand wringers wailing "wont sombody please think of the children!" Just look at at the fact that in this latest media beat up they conveniently ignore that 11 in 12 fatal accidents do NOT involve P platers. Again this is government guff, the majority of their voters are in that 11 so the gummint has some 'damning evidence' put in the press then scares the stupid into believing young hoons are killing hard working families by the millions and then conveniently comes up with a plan to save the day.

What you are missing here is that 1 in 12 fatalities for P platers is quite high. You are on P plates for 2 years yes?, therefore the age is; on average 17-19yo, so the next group would be over a 24yr period so 19 - 43yo making the statistics for P platers much higher than the older age group as most people will drive into their 70's ............Hope you can understand this

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Beaten up old 98 Gen 2 Liberty, 13.0, stock V3 STI running gear.
07 Transit motor home
69 VF & 70 VG Valiants needing full restoration
Yamaha Zooma 50cc rocket hopefully going with the Transit.

I already pay 3K a year in insurance.

IMO cars are like a bike you should start at the top

you should start with something small and safe and work your way up

That's not correct - there are various sections that you must past per part and then pass as a whole.

What is hilarious though is that "stopping to hard" is deemed inappropriate AND there is still no emergency stop.

Quite simply - I agree that driver education is the only way to get better drivers. By that, I mean, serious 3 days full time on a skid pan , track etc.

Limits are often pushed because many don't know where they are - when that "limit" is reached 90%+ of all drivers just hit the brakes and pray.

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[COLOR=Black]Liberty GT Spec B tuned 240 HP & 372 Nm at the hubs.[/COLOR] "Instead of banning high performance cars - ban low performance drivers"

I find a good comparison to the roads is supermarkets.

How often to people push their trolleys in front of people, rush down the isles. bounce off the shelves and other people carts.

Last weekend a woman chatting on her mobile phone pushed her cart down the centre of the isle at speed forcing everyone to get out of her way. teh next isle had a bloke with his trolley parked across the isle and ignoring everyone who wants to get past.

If people treat other like this when they can be seen and interacted with, what chance do we have of them modifying their habits when they a faceless box on the road.

I bring no decent statistics to the argument, but I spent my P-plate years in a fairly small country town in South Oz, and at the time there were no power-weight restrictions. Off the top of my head I can think of close to twenty mates or mates of mates that had killed themselves in cars before the age of twenty. Nearly all of these cases come down to sheer lack of experience and unexpected circumstances at speed. So personally I'm all for the restrictions. I was fortunate enough to have a specced out rally car to take my adolescent stupidity out on, and I still believe it not only stopped me from ploughing into a tree (on the roads), but also improved my respect for all things mobile. I'm quite certain that if I was still on my P-plates and I was to read about such a restriction, I too would have tried to argue some statistics, and say that I know better. But seriously guys and gals, they're only trying to save you and your mates lives. Just deal with it for a few years, gain some experience, and when you get off of your P's (which for fuck sake, is only a few short years), you'll have a better understanding and respect for the road.

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Air is for pussies.

Im all for restricting p platers to what they can/cannot drive.
like many people before have said - if its good enough for the motorcyclists then why not us?

it scares me quite alot when i see most days are brand new VE SS utes all dolled up and p plates in the window. i hardly see any of these guys ( who are predominatly driving them) being remotely responsible. even in the daily crawl in traffic - its awesome to leave a massive gap and let everyone hear what your 6L of penis sounds like.

Attitude is the biggest thing that needs changing. I suffered from P plate courage - lucky i didnt have anything that was remotely fast ( 89 Magna with a wicked air horn)
because i would have killed myself in anything more. i didnt have experience and limited know how. i still dont drive what most people would regard as a fast car but i consider myself 100x better than what i was 8 years ago. after a bunch of skidpan days experience - im still not a great driver but i have a better understanding of driving & What happens when you push hard and throw unknowns into a situation on public roads.
i love it though - i was listening to 92.9 the other morning and they brought up this whole subject - had a 18yr old trev call in - he made the same "attitude needs to change" remark but was then asked by baz if he was in his car ( a 350 clubby) and baz pulled up beside him at the lights - would you race me. the trev replied with " hell yes i would". Game. Set. Match.

Restrict Bonehead trev p platers to make our roads safer and to help them see their 21st birthday

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2016 Subaru Outback - Work Wagon
350NM of CVT Goodness
Pit Crew, shit talker.